Starting a company and scaling a company are not the same job.
That was the central message on our recent episode, where Colin C. Campbell spoke with longtime scaling coach Matt Kuttler about what it really takes to move beyond startup mode.
Kuttler, who has spent more than a decade coaching companies through growth, first encountered the Scaling Up framework through Verne Harnish in 2000. At the time, Kuttler was an entrepreneur himself, later building Restockit.com, an e-commerce company selling restaurant, janitorial and office supplies before selling it in 2012.
“They delegate tasks in start mode, but they don’t delegate responsibilities in scale mode.”
For Kuttler, the scaling tools were not theory. They became operating systems for real companies.
“What I found is, a lot of the tools are good early and good for late stage,” he said. “But some of the tools you have to customize.”
One example was the concept of “rocks,” borrowed from Stephen Covey’s The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Rocks are the major priorities that matter most. Pebbles are smaller initiatives. Sand is the daily noise that consumes time if leaders are not careful.
In traditional scaling systems, rocks are often set quarterly. But in startup mode, Kuttler said, a quarter can feel like forever. At Restockit, they sometimes used monthly or even weekly rocks to maintain focus.
That ability to adapt systems to the stage of the company is critical. Campbell noted that many founders are great at starting but struggle to scale because the skills are different. Startup mode rewards instinct, speed and control. Scale mode requires delegation, structure and repeatable systems.
“The entrepreneur is in the way,” Campbell said. “They delegate tasks in start mode, but they don’t delegate responsibilities in scale mode.”
Kuttler agreed that founders often become the bottleneck. The ones who succeed tend to be learners. They read, seek coaching, join peer groups and remain open to the possibility that what got them here will not get them there.
That mindset shift often shows up most clearly in hiring.
Kuttler shared how Restockit hit a growth ceiling around $10 million to $12 million in revenue. The company knew marketing was the key to the next stage, but the first two marketing hires failed. Finally, the founders realized they needed someone who had already operated at the level they wanted to reach.
They raised the salary, hired the right leader and the company’s growth accelerated.
“The next thing, she’s got different processes and systems and knowledge and experience,” Kuttler said.
Hiring for scale means looking beyond immediate needs. Founders must ask what roles the company will need at the next level, not just what it needs today. They must also be willing to move loyal early employees into better-fitting seats when the company outgrows their current role.
The conversation also turned to culture. Kuttler emphasized that core values should not sit forgotten on a wall. They should be used in hiring, recognition and daily communication.
At Restockit, team members could publicly recognize colleagues for demonstrating a company value. One value was “dig in,” and employees who embodied it might receive a small shovel as a symbol. It made the values memorable and practical.
Campbell then raised another key scaling concept: the X factor.
An X factor is a strategic advantage that solves a major bottleneck in an industry. For Hostopia, Campbell’s company, the X factor was becoming the best in the world at migrations, backed by a “100 percent migration guarantee.” That promise helped the company win major telecom customers and eventually sell to a Fortune 500 company.
Kuttler shared another example: a landscaping company that used satellite mapping to quote jobs remotely, eliminating a major industry bottleneck and speeding up sales.
The point is not just to be better. It is to be meaningfully different in a way customers value.
Toward the end of the discussion, Dr. Rowshanak added a psychological layer. Founders often struggle to scale because the business becomes fused with their identity. In startup mode, the founder is everything. In scale mode, the founder must become the builder of an organization that can operate beyond them.
That is a difficult transition.
But it is also the work of scaling.
As Campbell put it, startup mode and scale mode require different versions of the entrepreneur. The founder who learns to evolve has a chance to build something far larger than themselves.
