Read the Transcript for the Serial Entrepreneur Club – Is Hiring a Coach an Investment?


SE.Club – EP43


Hey Patrick, how are you doing? Hey, how are you Colin? Good, doing well? We’re so excited about having you here today to talk about coaching. This is the serial entrepreneur hour.

We are doing a show on the power of coaching. And I would say that today’s show is really about the importance of surrounding yourself with great people to increase your chances of success. We do know from studies that if you are a serial entrepreneur or if you surround yourself with others who are successful, you can increase your chances of succeeding at your startup. A few weeks ago, I made a statement on a clubhouse quoting Hillary Clinton. It takes a village and a, well, I can tell you, after raising two children, it does take a village to raise [00:01:00] children, but I also believe it does to launch a startup as well. Today we have, um, entrepreneur and CrossFit trainer, Santiago, Kelly, hello, Santiago and Santiago.

You can click, I know you’re new to the club. You can play. There you go. Can you hear me? Yes. I can hear you. How are you doing? Yeah, very well. And we also have Patrick Theon from rhythm systems. So I just want to first introduce Santiago. He owns Riptide CrossFit are, you know, out of Fort Lauderdale and, uh, he just lost a shared office work concept called that’s w R K F I Patrick Thien is a tech entrepreneur.

Best selling author and founder of rhythm systems. And he comes to us today to talk about the power of coaching for your startup. Um, for those of you new, for those of you who know me, I am an unlikely candidate [00:02:00] to, uh, to sign up to CrossFit. I’m 51, I’m overweight. And since my twenties I’ve been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease called ankylosing spondylitis, that was actually, uh, what ed Sullivan had if you remember him.

Uh, so basically a spinal fusion. Um, I would sometimes characterize myself if I was in the wizard of Oz, I would be the 10 men. So a little over a year and a half ago, despite my fears, I hired a coach. Uh, it was Santiago and I just, you know, I just, I just couldn’t figure out on my own how to gain flexibility to lose weight, build muscle mass, and ultimately improve my quality of life.

Uh, Jeff actually introduced me to Santiago is Santiago was Jeff’s coach as well. And I know Santiago, you’ve been coaching now for 11 years. Um, I’m not your easiest client. I can say that, but can you talk to me about the benefits of getting a coach for, for, for, [00:03:00] for working out or CrossFit and what are some reasons everyone needs a coach?

Absolutely. Colin, thank you for the intro. So there’s a couple of things, you know, there’s a lot of layers to coaching. Um, but a couple of things that I kind of thought about for this is going to be number one, accountability, having the accountability of a trainer, um, do to, and then a second point to due to the commitment that you make, right?

So there’s a commitment to yourself and your own health and your own needs. You know, physical and psychological, as we all know, exercise is also a psychological and emotional thing. So you have accountability with a trainer where you tell the trainer, you’re going to meet them certain days, certain hours.

And you also feel compelled not only for yourself, but you know, for what you said to the trainer you were going to do to do a little bit more than just for yourself. You know, as strange as that might sound, [00:04:00] a lot of us do things better for others than we do for ourselves. Um, secondary to the accountability or not secondary.

But next thing I have for that is being able to trust experts and getting results, you know, using their knowledge and their expertise and things that are not necessarily our strengths, right? So the same way that I would want a business coach to help run my business, you know, my couple of businesses, you know, the same way that people that don’t have.

Become experts in exercise science or nutrition and health and wellness, getting a trainer is just going to ensure results. Another big part of it, I think is, and this is one of my favorite. It’s going to be the psychological and emotional support you get from, from having a coach. You know, so there’s a lot of, there’s the whole like exercise part of it, but the deeper layer.

And I think this is the most impactful is when you get to [00:05:00] build a relationship with your trainer, with your coach, you know, whether that’s coaching and fitness or any other aspect of life, if the two people are able to build a good and a strong, solid relationship, then there starts to have you start to experience transcendence, right?

Where their psychological and emotional support starts to talk about other things other than just exercising, just like the way you and I. No, we talk about mostly a whole bunch of other things other than just the exercises themselves. So that’s powerful in itself. We’re just, um, human beings are driven by that psychological and emotional need.

The other thing I would say is going to be by having a coach, we inherently will push harder than we do if we do things by ourselves. So pushing ourselves outside of our comfort zone is where growth happens. And I know a lot of people here have heard about that in the business world and the startup world.

And, um, it’s no different in the fitness exercise, nutrition and health and wellness world. [00:06:00] Right? Sometimes we got to do things that are outside our comfort zone that we wouldn’t do as well as her, on her own. As if we have a coach pushing us, demanding more of us fulfilling our true potential, a little higher than what we would do on our own to tie everything together, you know, motivation and commitment go together in one.

And that’ll like wrap everything up, you know, you get more motivated and you’re more committed to achieving whatever results you’re looking for by having a coach relative to doing it by herself. And that’s what, Hey son, one thing that appealed to me and I, you know, I just started, right. So I really wanted personalized attention because I knew, oh my God, I don’t want to go in and be embarrassed.

I wanted something highly tailored to what I need. So for me, that was the thing that I found appealing about a [00:07:00] coach, a personal coach, rather than going to a mass CLA class for go all the COVID issues, obviously. So I’m curious, you know, what is your thoughts? You actually run a very popular. CrossFit gym here in town, as well as have your coaches, including yourself that do these personalized sessions.

Like when should I just like, when should a person reach out for personalized sessions rather than just being, you know, anonymous or whatever, and joining a group class, I’m curious what your thoughts would be on that. That’s a great question to show, and I’m really glad you brought that up. Um, it’s just like in fitness, there’s group coaching and there’s individual coaching and other things, right?

Like in businesses as well, you can sign up for these like mass online development and business courses where hundreds of people, you know, taking courses from one business coach and one mentor relative to personal, I [00:08:00] think in the fitness world, you should get a personal trainer and do the one-on-one when there’s a, a lot less experience understanding.

And I’m a lot more self-doubt. So if you’re a person who’s never exercised or exercise, very little. And, um, you have your you’re 100% clueless and you can admit it. You can recognize it. And you’re also super fearful for your own wellbeing. You’re like, I’m just so unsure. I have no idea if this is going to work for me, I have no idea if this is going to be a good fit for me.

If I’m going to get any results out of this, if it should be orange theory or CrossFit or, or Pilates or pump 90 fit or all these, you know, fitness options that we have out there as consumers starting with a personal coach, one-on-one can be an easier path to just set a baseline. And then start answering those big questions we have when we look in the mirror, you know, Hey, [00:09:00] is this going to really move the needle forward for my health?

You know, my body image, my confidence, obviously my fitness and my physical abilities. And by having one-on-one, um, a lot of people can answer those questions quicker than in the group environment. The timeline is a little bit faster one-on-one to also getting results, because like you said, everything’s tailored to your individual needs or what your greatest needs are.

Whereas in the group environment, it’s kind of like general physical preparedness, or just general needs. Everyone should be lean. Everyone should be able to run. Everyone should be able to do functional movements. So we’ll train you that way. But on the one-on-one scenario, we can really dive into the specific and particular needs.

If somebody has an injury, somebody just never done anything before starting one-on-one and then eventually moving to the group environment. That’ll be a conversation you’ll have one-on-one with your coach and whether it’s CrossFit, functional, [00:10:00] fitness, whatever you want to call it. Um, a good trainer will encourage their one-on-one clients.

They Santiago, we, we, you drop there. Um, but I can tell you, I definitely relate to this idea of pushing it, you know, pushing it to another level or pushing yourself into an uncomfortable zone. And, uh, there’s a, um, a founder of Panasonic, a meshes Shita who would always say, you know, he pushes himself outside of his comfort zone.

Uh, now let me, uh, just pivot a little bit here, uh, and talk about 2005. When we started out where we started, we took a company public called Hostopia. It was a cloud-based computing company, selling hosting, and email services to telecoms like 18 T and Vodafone. And let me say this, the wheels were coming off the bus, they really were revenue was stalling.

Um, we [00:11:00] had departments that war with each other, uh, not to mention myself and my brother. Uh, we were missing our quarterly targets and what’s. About that as we found out days before the end of the quarter or Patrick, we were, you know, we were consistently being blindsided. The board began to move against my gains, me and, uh, my former business partner was dumping a stock on the stock market.

So the basic basically I was in trouble. And I, I sometimes think that as entrepreneurs or, you know, whether it’s, you know, hiring a coach, like you, Santiago that I did, you know, I’m in trouble. It was almost like you have hit a low point and then you think, wow, that’ll maybe is the time to, to bring in some help.

And, uh, the funny thing about making big changes is we don’t often do them do them unless we really are in big trouble. So not only was I totally out of my element, I’m looking at I’m 26 years or 36 years old at that time. And I hadn’t run such a large company and let alone manage the politics in one, [00:12:00] I’m an offender of mine.

Another Jeffrey Jeffrey will. Told me, uh, about a gentleman that was helping him scale his company. It was taking off, um, battered and bruised. Basically. I reached out to him and met him up at, up in a cafe in Vegas. And I remember that meeting Patrick. I don’t know if you remember it, but I described to you all of my challenges and said, I, but I just said to you, I said, I just need you to get the board off my back.

I can hire you for a couple of sessions to signal the board that we’ve got some professional management, better systems that we’re implementing and that’s enough. And then, and then you turned around and you said, well, Colin, I can’t do that. And you’re pretty much refused to work with me. Um, you, you said I can do a full coaching program and that meant hard work.

It meant changing the way we do things. It also meant getting every executive and the team and the entire staff on board. Uh, and. You know what it wasn’t easy. It was not easy. Bringing in a coach. Uh, today Patrick’s [00:13:00] been my coach for now. 16, 17 years coached me through multiple companies, multiple exits Patrick, tell me why, why do startups need a coach?

And how can it help them scale their business? So, Colin, uh, let me, let me provide a slight different perspectives of Santiago’s, but very complimentary, very complimentary, by the way. I do remember that conversation from 2005. And, and you recall, I told you, I said, Hey, um, here’s the program? And, and USU said, well, Patrick, you know, a lot, I’m sure a lot of your clients say the same thing to you, you know, by, I don’t think I.

This whole program. I just need this one of two things. Right. And I shared a you, I said, maybe you’re right. Maybe you asked moderate in some of my other clients, but I don’t know if we can succeed with what you’re suggesting, but I know that we can succeed with what I’m suggesting. And so I don’t want to do it your way, cause I don’t know if I can succeed with you, but I know for a fact I can maybe succeed if we do it this way.[00:14:00] 

And so that’s why I chose not to take the gig. Uh, do we need Joey? That’s the kind of the conversation and you laughed and you said, Patrick, you know, wow, you can just teach me how to do just that. Probably what the fees already. So that was compensation. I remember very vividly walking down memory lane.

Uh, so, so I’ll tell you why I refused the gig the way you suggest also, because my perspective is that I’m highly motivated to help all my CEOs not fail because the failure rate is just so high will founders and CEOs. And so I’m highly motivated every day I wake up and I think, you know, how do I help?

Um, how do I help an entrepreneur or one of my CEOs just not fail. Uh, you got to survive before you can scale. So, you know, you’re asking me how, why, why, why a company needs to have a coach of scale them. And I would say to you first, you got to survive before you can scale that many startups die and fail.

So they never fulfill the potential. All that future value is destroyed. Could’ve been [00:15:00] avoided with some help from a coach. So I think to succeed, you need to learn and hold two competing ideas in your head and be highly inspired. The first idea is that you’re going to change the world. Whatever your vision is awesome.

You gonna change the world. But then the second idea is, oh shit, uh, you can fail. So you need to have a plan B in other mitigating factors to not fail. If something goes wrong. And many of us can think that way without someone helping us, because we don’t want to think about the, oh shit, we don’t want to think about what did we fail?

So let me share with you my own story, you know, back in bust of 2000, 2001 long time ago, a human call was on my board and at my current company at that time different company, I was running and he called it a time for all of you who don’t know, uh, was the CEO of bank of America. So he was on my board and then our board meeting, I shared the plan for us to win and scale through dot bomb, because that was what people were saying was is not really dot bomb.

And Mr. McCall said to [00:16:00] me, Patrick, your plans are wrong. You said first, you must survive. Then you can thrive. Your is all about striving. Come back with, to me with a plan to survive. Now I did that and if I had not received that coaching at that point in time from Mr. Hugh McCall, my company would have died.

So thanks to him. Um, I went back built plants to survive before thriving and, you know, hearing the story. It seems so simple and clear, right. But, but in a crisis we’ll miss the simple and clear and someone needs to help us see the obvious. So that’s one point. The other thing is that a coach will help you discuss and make better decisions with you.

So I think of decision and for. People’s strategy, execution and cash. And you’ll coach a good coach will have good patterns that can be applied to your business. You can learn vicariously from past patterns, past failures, apply that the right one to your business, and then you can hopefully, um, you know, escape making some of these mistakes.

And I always put a [00:17:00] rhythm in place for companies I work with because I want people to stop and think. And, and every 13 weeks, right calling, I mean, every quarter, I want you guys to apply the brakes and stop and think a little bit before you make your plans. And then before you get something. And so, by the way, Centegra talked about pushing people beyond the comfort zone.

So for me, I do something a bit different there for me. I’m trying to help people see the blind spots. Okay. So blind spot, if you drive a car, the blinds, every car has a blind spot, right? Those are the spots that you can’t see. And I want to help people see what’s in their blind spot so that it can avoid getting blindsided.

So nobody likes being blindsided, you know, but we get mindset because we just didn’t see it coming. Sometimes you just need somebody else to be looking over there for you and cover your blind spots. So, you know, kind of, uh, in summary, we kind of play multiple roles in, in the Wolf business coaching, uh, one we’re role as a teacher to teach new stuff.

Uh, another [00:18:00] one is trainer four habits that you want to get into your system and observer for when you’re doing the work. So it can help you get better. Accountability as what Santiago said, accountability, to make sure you own up to what you supposed to do and get it done. Being a cheerleader to help you fall when it’s really, really tough.

And then finally, in my case, your therapist, you know, when you just don’t understand why the heck it sucks to be you, because it probably doesn’t suck to be you. It just felt that way on that bad day. And sometimes you just need someone to talk to so that, so that you, you get, uh, you understand reality wasn’t as bad as you thought it was, and it doesn’t suck to be you.

It’s great to be you. So if you pick the right. With the right chemistry, methods, patterns, leadership qualities. It’s a decision to pay you back millions. So, you know, call annuity, shed the history we we’ve been working here 16 years helped you through two companies, multiple companies, millions of dollars of value created.

Another one of [00:19:00] my clients comes to my avid exchange here in Charlotte. The CEO is Michael Prager. I’ve been coaching 21 years. It’s my oldest customers, my first customer, by the way, cushion from zero to unicorn, to IPO in October last year with the valuation grid at five billions. So in, in, in Michael’s case, you know, it’s zero to billions.

No, it’s awesome. And, uh, I just find it fascinating how my two coaches, my, uh, workout coach and my business coach all talk about accountability, knowledge, motivation, support, pushing into that uncomfortable zone and committed. And it’s just interesting how they connect like that. Um, Patrick, can you just, you mentioned, or just touched upon a little bit on the, uh, the 90 days, strategic planning sessions and, and goal setting.

Can you talk a little bit more about [00:20:00] the importance of goal setting and how that can improve a startup’s chance for success? Yeah, so, you know, goal setting is a pretty common concept these days, you know, I think most people get the concept that they’ve got to set goals. So, so, and there’s so much research on goal setting already.

It’s it’s out there. It’s clear. So you’ll go commit to it and your accountability to your goal and your success rate goes up. So that’s the common usual answer. So setting goals is not a strange thing anymore. So let me give you maybe what I would call the uncommon insight, right? The uncommon insight is the following, uh, is I’m trying to get people to not just set goals, but to get into a good, successful rhythm.

Uh, I’m trying to get people to stop, pause, think, and then figure out therefore, from your thinking process, what are the right goals? So it’s not just about setting goals is about [00:21:00] choosing the right few goals. And most of us, we are so busy. We think we’ve set our goals. Uh, but we really haven’t. So we’ve got to kind of slow down, take stock and set some good goals, uh, that not just we do, but then our teams buy into.

I’ve realized over the years, calling the goal setting is really not about the individual, right? Let me, let me, let you guys think about that for a second. This, this is what I call the uncommon insight goal setting is really not about the individual in a startup goal setting is really about your team.

What are the handful of most important things that you guys and gals should do as a team? And therefore these are the top three goals and therefore, um, how do you prioritize your work life around that? So it’s not just setting a goal, right? And the reason why it’s important is all of the things that come off, that you set the goal.

So you set the goal to commit to the goal, uh, and, and, and say it [00:22:00] hopefully becomes your language for execution. It becomes your language for alignment to get everyone aligned on these three goals. When a fourth, fifth, six item comes up. That’s great opportunity. We understand that they are not as important as these three prioritized goals that we’re talking about.

So it’s not just a setting of goals is able to, is the, is the ability to commit to a few of them so that you can deprioritize the other wonderful things, which really are distractions. And then you use your language of goals to get a team, to align to that work. And then anytime you get stuck or things slow down, you have to remind folks that are they working on something else other than these goals?

I think a goal setting also gives you the practice of being clear on what you want to do. If you cannot describe it. Well, there is no way you can explain it well, and if you [00:23:00] cannot explain it well, then your team cannot execute it along with you. So then it becomes actually impossible to delegate accountability.

Uh, so if you really want to have a team working well and working fast, you must set the goals. You must be able to prioritize and say, these are the top most important ones that therefore these are the other things that we’re choosing not to do intentionally choosing not to do. Then you can begin to delegate accountability and you can move faster as a team.

So this is actually a muscle. That needs to be strong when you scale. So that’s the other reason when you’re a startup, you may think it’s not that important, right? It’s just me and my partner or my small team of, of, of folks that can just move quickly. But if you don’t start learning how to set those goals and building delegation and accountability skills, when your company begins to grow.

You won’t be able to scale and you want to know how to set goals in such a way that [00:24:00] the team moves faster. So I think of that as a muscle that needs to be strong when you scale. But unfortunately just like muscles, it takes time to develop this kind of brain, muscle and brain memory. And so that’s why I think even from the very beginning setting goals, uh, I, upon a calling, I remember when you, uh, uh, started, um, you know, dot club and you called me and said, Patrick, you know, why don’t you come in and help my team member by set to you, call them uni have like six people.

And then how you going full time? I mean, I don’t think you really need me. And I know you remember this and I used it. No, no, no. I need you. I need you. I need you to come in here and set the foundation. Right. Because I don’t want to have to do something and then like redo it. So let’s just get it set up correctly now.

So that’s the benefit of, you know, looking at a guy like you who’s been through multiple startups. Uh, and, and you kind of see like, okay, let’s set some of those foundation things up now have. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, this isn’t [00:25:00] about taking, uh, you know, sub players and making them better. This is about taking your a players and getting the best out of them.

That’s why, um, sports, um, figures. They have coaches, um, the people going to the Olympics, they have the best coaches in the world. They do probably more coaching than anyone because you’re trying to take these top players, the top talent in your organization and make them better. Um, I just want to let everybody know in the audience.

Uh, if you have a question, please raise your hand. We’re, we’re going to open it up for questions with Patrick or with Santiago, or if you have had a coach before and it’s made a difference with your. We want to hear your story. So please raise your hand. This is interactive. Patrick. Want to, I don’t want to share one last time that you fought before, you know, what you just said about, um, having your best become even better.

That’s [00:26:00] absolutely the thought pattern. I love for everyone to think about because lots of people think, oh my God, I’m sucking wind. That’s why I need a coach. And that, that is not true. Uh, in fact, none of the CEOs I work with. None of them suck if you suck, I probably want to work with you because, because selfishly, you know, I want all my, all my clients to really succeed in my mission is to help people not fail.

So, so it’s really about taking the best and making them even even better. I call and I had a question and I’m, first of all, I’m happy to say that I’ve had the pleasure of working with both Patrick and Santiago. Um, so I’ve been on both sides of this coin, and I love that, you know, both of you overlapped different areas that both talked to things as a muscle, you both mentioned, you know, you’re both working on muscles, just different muscles.

And I’m curious from each of you, you know, Santiago, you know, it’s no mistake that Colin brought you both on stage today, a physical [00:27:00] coach and a business coach. Um, how important is, how does a physical coach and physical fitness impact in entrepreneur and conversely for Patrick, how does being a sharper, sharper at business and having the, the diligence and the dedication that you learn through your coaching processes and goal setting, how does that help you be a better physical being?

So how do you each help each other? Greg question just, and, um, you know, when it comes to like. Fitness, you know, there’s, there’s this three big building blocks of life that I call them. And these foundational building blocks, I think will help in anything but more particular to answer your question in business, and that’s going to be exercise, sleep and nutrition.

And it’s kind of like the three big that we try to focus on as trainers in the fitness world, right, is helping people realize that if you can focus [00:28:00] on those big three, then other aspects of your life such as business, your personal finances, and even relationships are going to be better. And it sounds kind of like a selfish approach to life.

But, you know, as human beings, we need to fill our cup of tea first, because if we don’t do it, if we don’t satisfy those biological needs of like our body needs sleep needs healthy food, and it needs exercise. It’s just the way we were built and the way we’ve evolved as human beings. And so if we satisfy those three.

Then what’s going to happen is our, our mental and physical fitness, right? And our health are going to allow us to then Excel and have a much sharper mindset and everything else that we need to do in life to have a happy, healthy, and successful life, whether that’s relationships with our family, our loved ones, significant others, or in business, in our business endeavors.

And the research is out there. As you know, Patrick is saying, it’s, [00:29:00] there’s tons of research out there. It’s a science. It’s not like in a subjective opinion. It’s like if we sleep better, eat better and we exercise often. It’s just, it doesn’t matter what we do. We’re going to do much better at it because we’re focusing on those big three is as I call it.

And Santee just a quick aside, before we go to Patrick, how has your CrossFit coaching experience helped you now that you’re starting a whole different, um, entrepreneurial venture with workspace? Yeah, I like that question a lot. Um, one of the biggest things that we do in CrossFit is, um, we try to teach, um, people from all walks of life in bits and chunks.

We call it progressions. We try to teach movements in small pieces and we try to celebrate small wins and daily habits to then eventually do the big, scary stuff that when we first started crushing it, we don’t think we can do. And then a year or two down the road, you know, the consistency and frequency of going to [00:30:00] the gym, eating a little healthier, sleeping a little better.

Um, that mindset, it, uh, is, is the approach we have in CrossFit. And that’s the mindset. Um, I’m excited about embracing for like this new business endeavor where I’m not experienced or very knowledgeable in the coworking space, but I’m trying to focus on, you know, the daily habits and the daily consistent.

Trip effect of learning about this new business. And I’m confident that if I focus on the little things, taking one step at a time, one day at a time, one week at a time, I’m not going to be by this old, you know, I’m not going to be overwhelmed by this big, like hairy, audacious thing of like, wow, this is a completely new field, a new industry for me.

What am I going to do? You know, in two or three years, if XYZ is not going right. And, and, and that’s, that’s how I feel CrossFit. And the CrossFit mentality is going to help me the most for this new endeavor. [00:31:00] Awesome. Patrick, how does business coaching help you be a better person all around, including and physical.

Well, you know, Santiago gave you the secret already, right? You said, exercise, sleep nutrition, bam. The exercise, sleep nutrition. So nutrition for me is, is, uh, the, the brain nutrition for you. It’s learning quicker, applying quicker, learning faster. And then, you know, we talked about priming and reflection. So we’re priming a habits that help you start your day off.

Great every single day. So you think of yourself as a corporate athlete, right? A business athlete, you’re running a marathon, uh, you’re not running a sprint. Unfortunately, many entrepreneurs don’t realize that and they get so excited about their new business idea. They get up and they’re running a sprint.

And if you run a sprint, you will get burnt out because you run it at speed and you try and do a sprint, a marathon. You, you can’t do it. Can’t do it at all. No. [00:32:00] Unfortunately, if I ask you, or do you want me to come to the great companies as a good company where everyone says a great company, and you’ve always heard the, the old adage that, Hey, this a fantastic, great company.

This overnight success took 15 years. So if an overnight success took 15 years, right? Meaning there was no such thing as overnight success. It took 15 years. Are you running a race that allow you to run for at least 15 years? So, um, you’ve got to run a race that lets you run at least 15 years. And, um, I would also share to answer your question about how does it make you better on the other areas?

I believe that there’s a really one being, not two beings. In other words, some people say this, I am at home. That’s one being this, I am at work. That’s a work being and really it’s just one being. So anything that you learn on, on the work site to make you a better leader, uh, how, how you, the habits that help you be a better [00:33:00] leader, be a stronger worker, those kinds of things, better results, a better leader at work makes you a better husband at home, or a better wife at home or, or, or a better sister, a better brother, um, by the father, by the mother.

So, so that’s, that’s one, one concept that the other one is I would say that, um, when I, when I coach I actually have a pie chart and when I begin to work with a customer and I actually do this every year, I’ll ask them to divide the pie chart in terms of how much energy is being spent. Uh, w uh, and then I have three categories, self family, and work, and have discovered.

It is that for a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, is a lot of work, a little bit of fat. And none on self and that is a formula for burnout. So what I try to do is help people have the correct pie chart for their life. Uh, and by the way, the current pie chart is not one-third one-third one-third, it is the correct intentional pie chart for where you [00:34:00] are in this exact moment in time.

So for example, last year, when Mike was going through his IPO, uh, you bet work was a much, much bigger pie slice of the pie than self and family. Yeah. But I would want it to that. And I want to make sure that that doesn’t last forever. So, uh, after the company is public, now there’s gotta be a time for him to, you know, recover, reflect, recharge, give time to self family and get back into balance.

So again, I wanna emphasize balance doesn’t mean one third, one third, one third. It means you have the right pie chart intentionally for exactly where you are in life and in work.

Oh, I love that. Thank you, Patrick. That’s great. Um, do we have a question from before we open up, Steven? Uh, do we have a question from Rachel Michelle or Kelly?

No. Okay. So Steven, you are up next. Do you have a question or do you [00:35:00] have a story about how coaching has made a difference in your. I’ll be shortened, both. Um, I sort of combine it. Uh, coaching coaching has made a difference with me this way is, uh, I find people that what was interesting in Santiago talked about like CrossFit and, uh, Patrick talks about a person who coached with an IPO.

Uh, so I, I know finance, I know CrossFit, and I think it’s really finding people that can coach you. They’re really, really good at something. And, uh, I was given this advice. I’d like to know what you guys think. I used it and it worked effectively for me, but I don’t know if this is effective for everybody, but I was told to run through this first two things.

Make sure I’ve coached somebody on something myself before getting a really good coach. So I’d want to know if that’s true. And then the other thing I’ve said, I was told was this before getting a coach? No. This [00:36:00] one, who do you want to learn? To what do you want to learn? And three, make sure to what end do you want to get?

Like, make sure you’re really clear on to what end. And that seems simple because, oh, I want to just learn XYZ. And, uh, and I was told now really want to know, learn who you want to learn from what do you want to learn and to what end and be super crystal clear on that. Because on the finance side, you know, it’s interesting.

I connect with people and I connect with some people that could do coaching and whatever. I have a good network of people for whatever, somebody somebody’s coaching us. And look, if you’re really, really good at it. I know people that are willing to spend money, that for people that are really, really good at something to be around them, to be coached by them, you know, anything somebody can come up with they’re really, really good at it.

There’s like if you’re in the top 1% or better, small fraction of a percent of what you’re good at, people will pay to be around you. People pay to get coached by you. And there’s plenty of people at the money that’ll spend it. And that’s [00:37:00] why I think, you know, this app. Yeah, spurns spurs that, but my question would be that, what do you think of that idea of, um, know who you want to learn from?

Be really clear on what you want to learn and be really clear to what end let’s note you guys think about that and I’m done speaking. Yeah. And S San Diego, do you want to take that first to me? It’s about visualizing success. You know, when you, when you first, when I sat down with you first, you asked me, what do I want to achieve?

Well, take it start, start at San Diego. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, calling. Good question, Steven. And I like where your head is at and I, and I agree you wholeheartedly, um, taking the time to reflect on objectives. Like who do I want to learn from? What do I want to learn? Um, well definitely makes selecting a coach a lot better.

Or the process at least easy, for sure. You know, in today’s world, um, coaching is becoming more and more popular and more and more accepted and, and more and more [00:38:00] people are seeking it out, which is awesome. Um, but yeah, of course, having those objectives will help narrow, you know, in the world of possibilities, something that’s a better fit.

And like Collin said, you know, maybe having a sit down before deciding on who’s the coach or what kind of coaching, um, and one for yourself first to have some clarity and then two, to be able to establish, you know, that clarity with the person you’re looking to work with will 100% not only expedite the process, but just make it a lot easier for everyone.

And I think increased the chances of success and, um, and along the way, of course, being open to adjustments. Because I, at least for me, when I started in the world of fitness, I’ve been playing sports my entire life. But when I started in the world of coaching, you know, my head it in was going one way. And then with the evolution experience and time and attention, as we say, you know, we evolve.

So being able to [00:39:00] also evolve with that is extremely important. So Patrick, this idea of visualizing success, is that important for startups? Absolutely. Absolutely. Now Steven said three things though. He said, who, what? And, and, and, and the end. So you asking about the last part of his question, which is absolutely.

You got to visualize success and, and part of our processes to help you to visualize success. So I want to touch on the other two things that he said, though, one is. And I’ll say you need to select well, uh, versus pick a personality, right? Like don’t get in love with the idea of someone and go, I really want this guy to coach me.

Uh, well, you don’t really know this chemistry and I’ve, I’ve gotten people that called me and said, Patrick, I really have to have yes by coach. And I say, well, I don’t know. Let’s just meet first. Cause I may not be the right person for you. So, so you’d want to look for chemistry. You want to look for, you know, does the person have the kind of, uh, patterns that you’re looking for?

And I say, pat is not [00:40:00] experienced because patents can come from observation of the industry. Not just experience. In fact, I think some people make the mistake of saying, if I want, you know, I want to get a coach. Who’s, who’s done everything I’m about to do. And, and you don’t need a coach that has done everything you’re about to do.

In fact, you want to be really careful that a coach doesn’t try to make you a version of themselves. All right. So, so be very careful. Sometimes a very successful coach will think that his or her way is the only way. And so, you know, be careful who you select. And the last thing I want to mention is what, right.

No, what you want to learn. And on that one, I would say, uh, no, instead I would rather you be curious because most of the customers I have, when they call me, they tell me what they think they need. And I asked them a very simple question. I say, Hey, you know, are you, are you the one that’s a professional at figuring this out?[00:41:00] 

Or am I the one that’s a professional at figuring this out? You know, as to what you should learn. And then they pause. They say, well, I guess you’re the professional. I said, okay, good. Then why you equipping my style? What, why are you telling me what you need? And I found that if I can get them to be open and curious, right.

Not say, this is what I want, but be curious about what they need to learn. Uh, they have a much more exciting outcome, much more exciting outcomes. So I would, I would inject a huge amount of curiosity and openness as to, as to what you need, because unfortunately this is why I specialize in working on the blind side.

Right. Blindsides, because we don’t see it. And that’s why we get smacked up the hit, because that, that’s what we say when we get blindsided. So be curious, be open, uh, and you probably need something that you don’t know because the problem with saying what you think you need to learn is that you don’t [00:42:00] know what you don’t know.

That’s the problem. So be very open and very curious, uh, well said, well said, um, uh, Livia you’re on the stage. Do you have a question or a story you’d like to share? Hi, yes. I’m sorry. I came in a little late, but I don’t know if someone already talked about this, but, um, CrossFit was my first experience with coaching and I think the, the biggest takeaway for me, like it was realizing like, okay, you want these results?

Cool. Are you actually willing to put in the work it takes to get there? Because, um, if we bring it back to CrossFit, let’s say we all want to go into CrossFit and get like a beautiful body and abs and everything. It takes a lot of work and commitment. So, um, I think I can translate into everything in my life.

Like, okay, I want this, I need to figure out what I need to do. And am I [00:43:00] actually willing to put in that.

No, that’s good. That’s very interesting. Um, pivoting back to choosing the right type of coach Michelle. I know you just engaged a coach for CrossFit, and I thought you could maybe share with us a few of the criteria you were looking at. So we sort of heard about it from, uh, Patrick side. And then we’ve heard about it from Santiago side.

I’m curious from your perspective, since you just went through that process process, now this isn’t for a business coach. This is for a CrossFit coach, but I’m curious what your thought processes on it. Yeah, I mean, obviously. Preconceived notions. But for me, like I know my personality type. I know that I am motivated by somebody who just hangs in there and is very positive with me.

And my past experience with, you know, physical [00:44:00] fitness was that it typically was not that. And I actually also wanted a certain sanitary condition, et cetera. So when I set it out, set out my search, actually, Olivia and Rachel had told me about the coach I’m using Nate. And I first didn’t go there. I tried out lots on my own because I wanted to make sure you know, that I was, you know, going with my heart and vetting my own process.

But yeah, I mean, for me, I think knowing myself, and I don’t know that everybody, you know, feels that they can like pick their own criteria, but I knew if I was going to stay with it and I’m new. So that’s still to be seen of course, but I knew if I was going to stay with it, it had to be somebody that I knew that would be extremely supportive.

I don’t deal well with people being negative with me, because I know that I, you know, am pushing hard and if they go to the bad part with me, it just doesn’t work. So like I [00:45:00] said, it’s a new experience for me on, on the physical side. Um, and I talked to, you know, people I know that were successful at it, like Olivia and I got, you know, recommendations.

So I don’t know if that helps anybody, but that’s the path that I went down. All right. Well, I appreciate you sharing that with us. We have Dr. Julie went, look Farland onstage. We’d love to hear from you next. Hi Colin. Thank you. So yeah, I don’t have a question as such. It’s more that, um, so I’m an academic and Scotland and actually I specialize in the startup process.

So I’ve developed programs that have run definitely institutions across the world. I’ve taught tens of thousands of students, um, how to start up businesses. I’ve mentored students. I’ve also coached hundreds of startups and also supervise hundred hundreds of coaches, essentially. Um, so yeah, this is a really interesting topic for me in terms of why coaching matters.

But one thing [00:46:00] I picked up when Steven was talking and he was saying, you know, we want to find the right person because we, you know, what the norm, to be honest. And the reality as I think Patrick said it, you, the court, your coach doesn’t need to know because that’s more like a mentor than a coach, right?

For me, the coaching is the facilitation of your knowledge and you finding out and your discovery, as opposed to someone coming with a bag of knowledge and telling you. That’s more mean today, especially by definition. Um, and in terms of coaching, it’s the self awareness, right? It’s the, it’s the, the awareness of self, but then the awareness of the process of entrepreneurship and the weight of the process of startup and that classy and, and coaching sometimes gives people that space to take a step back and observe things that they maybe wouldn’t otherwise observe when needed in the middle of kind of fighting fires because you guys pass it, you’ll know call and you’ll know all of, you know, SMEs are in the [00:47:00] process of fighting fires on a daily basis, right.

Founders have 1,000,001 things that they have to consider. So that ability to step back. Refocus and also have someone to hold you to account there. I know someone else mentioned that accountability thing, and that is really, especially when I’ve worked with ASA music, especially for some funders that are maybe resistant to change, but it’s not me.

That’s making the change happen. It’s them questioning their own awareness of certain situations where that it’s customer awareness, where that it’s capabilities, awareness, where that it’s strategic awareness, but it comes down to the phone or sales. And coaching has the unique ability to allow individuals to take that step back.

And I, and, and you mentioned also Patrick beliefs, um, the research that I’ve been working on with Dr. Pamela large from Harvard, she, um, developed a paper that talks about beliefs, turning into behaviors, turning into patterns of behavior because of your blame sports, right? And you [00:48:00] mentioned the Blaine sports, but what nobody’s talked about are what these blind spots are.

So I can eat as a contextual empathy map recently, um, that basically maps. So what these blind spots are, and they’re things that individually, and they’re also things that in the way that omnibus contexts, that Jordan’s talks about. And it’s the same thing, the impact of the entrepreneurial process, which was in my own PhD thesis.

And that’s what my research is about is a bit context impacting the startup process. But both of these contextual factors create blame sports for the, the phone dark and also the phone that has the individual. So coaching has that ability to create awareness that that nothing else does. And it’s not about me as the coach creating the awareness.

It’s about me actively less thing, probing you with really detailed questions and holding you to a cane and giving you speaks. So yeah, that, that’s what I wanted to share. Um, I know it wasn’t a question or a story about it. I mean, I’m sure I’ve got some coaching stories, but yeah, [00:49:00] I hope that was of use, but yeah, that’s, that was just my comment.

Thank you. Hey, I have a question for Patrick. So obviously, or at least it feels obvious to me. Maybe it’s just me. I think most people. Like the idea of having a coach, but is that always economically feasible? Like maybe everybody cannot afford it. So I I’m curious, you know, for a lot of folks here in the audience, you know, like how do you go about getting a coach if you’re not quite there yet?

And you’re just dying to get one, like, I can remember so many times in my career, I would just like, pray that I could afford a coach, but I couldn’t. So what would your suggestion be Patrick to folks here are members of the audience? Well, the word of Ford Michele is a very interesting [00:50:00] word. Right? You said love to have one.

I paraphrase. You love to have one kind of thought maybe. Okay. So I would say that. Uh, affordance is much more about prioritization. So in other words, if it is important enough, then you can afford it. If it’s not important enough, you really can’t afford it. So, um, somebody asked me once he was talking about getting a coach and I asked him, I said, how, how would you justify, you know, coach?

And he wasn’t sure he said, I just think it’s a good concept. And I said, okay, you’re about to make a bunch of million-dollar decisions this year for your startup. It was a restaurant actually. And, and then not really a startup, but they were about to expand in a very major way. And I said, so go get yourself.

If your coach cannot help you avoid a million-dollar mistake, uh, I think you probably have the wrong. So in this case, that gentlemen was about to make a bunch of different decisions regarding whether he should or [00:51:00] should not open restaurants and stuff like that. And any while those mistakes would be a million-dollar mistake.

So, uh, so I, I would suggest that, um, you know, it’s, it’s one of those pain. No, no, not enough pain type questions, Michelle. I mean, it’s, it’s like, you know, if you want, want bad enough, you’ll figure out how to get one is I guess, how I would put it. So, so the folks that I know, you know, that, that want to coach, they got to really think hard about, you know, how important it is.

Is it really, really important? Do you really, really believe that this person, uh, this program would really improve your life? And, you know, I teach my, I go to two daughters, right? They’re 19 and 22 and I teach my daughters and my, and my, and my clients, by the way that there’s only one commodity that is truly precious.

I’m not trying to be flippant, but there’s only one commodity that is truly precious. And that is time, time. That is it. Time is [00:52:00] Tony’s true scarce commodity. You know, God’s given us the same 24 hours a day and whatever you spent today, you know, going to get back tomorrow, if you waste it today, you know, gonna get it back tomorrow, if you maximize it today, that’s wonderful because you’re not going to get it back tomorrow.

Um, money. I know this is going to sound a bit flippant, but money. We can always go make more of so, so I believe that, um, I don’t know that coaching is the most important thing for people, for everyone, but for some people, uh, coaching at that point in the lives could significantly change the trajectory and change the way they use the commodity called time, which is a limited supply off.

So I think it comes down to making a decision as to whether something like. Is that important that you want to spend the money on?

Yes. Uh, look, I, I think I was one of those where it did change the trajectory for me. [00:53:00] Um, I also want to say that I don’t think it is a money thing. There are programs out there, um, through organizations like score, you can Google them on the internet, whether you can find a mentor it’s government backed. I, I belong to a, um, an organization, um, that provides, um, support for startups.

Um, it’s the exit at the Allen Lavon center. You can apply for free join the cohorts and, uh, there are successful, um, you know, entrepreneurs who work with these startups to help them with their pitch, to help them raise money, to help them with their business ideas. Uh, you can go into an accelerator or a shared office space.

You can join a business club. There are so many business clubs out there. For instance, I’m a member of E O and every month, eight companies, eight individuals come together and share challenges and we help coach each other. So [00:54:00] yes, there is the paid coach. And I do believe in the right circumstances, it’s probably one of your highest, um, re you know, one of the highest return on investments for anything you can do is bring in a coach when you get a, you know, when you get a little bit of scale, a little bit of budget, bringing in a coach for yourself as CEO and for the team around, you can have tremendous effect.

And, uh, I obviously support that. I’ve done that for 15 years with my companies, but at the same time, if you’re just starting out, I still believe surround yourself with good people. There are a lot of, um, organizations. Yeah. And companies and groups that we can connect them. So you call and catch ’em Penn, also academic institutions.

Um, this is something Michelle, when you ask that question, that is also a, we, for example, for startups right now, I work with startup projects all the time and higher education where my master’s students will go in as consultants or coaches or [00:55:00] mentors, bidding, and main they’re trained. Um, so that are ways for the SMEs to get that, especially in the UK.

I mean, obviously the states is a different ballgame altogether, but the actual, for example, I run a coaching program in higher education for students. And I actually, it’s an enterprise coaching program that we run and I bring in SMEs who want to taste their coaching. So they can then be, they can be coached by my students throughout the process.

It gives the SMEs a taste that of coaching, but it also gives them kind of some of that stuff. For free until the R and a financial possession, or, you know, obviously there’s like a 12 week program. So they get, you know, they get sex weeks worth of free coaching. So, and all thought universities have programs that are free and do mentor programs as well.

So I think there are options for SMEs all over the world globally, but in the UK in particular, we have lots and lots of mentor programs and things like that, as well as coaching that can be free. I mean, I [00:56:00] do agree with Patrick that if you want to go down a specific executive route or whatever, then yes, you do need to pay, but for a taster and to get your foot wet, to see the benefits of it.

I think, you know, academic institutions call it another run. No, that’s great. I think the first step is just recognizing it’s okay to ask for help and making that choice. And I don’t think money is an issue if you choose to get. There’s a lot of help out there in, in the United States, Canada, UK, or wherever in the world.

In fact, we’re running a show, I think two weeks from now, Rachel, if you could maybe text Dr. Julie about the show, but we’re running one where we have, um, a TEDx speaker, uh, who runs the Nova, uh, love Alan Levann center for innovation. And we have a lady who, who, uh, runs a, another one up in Canada. And I think Dr.

Julia would be fun to have you onstage as well for that particular show. So Rachel, we can send [00:57:00] it to you. I would be absolutely ordered to join, you know, that’s great. Uh, we are running low on time. I wanted to ask, you know, this idea of commitments. So when I first, uh, started like experimenting with this, you know, bringing in help and I’d go to a, a conference and then I’d come back to the office.

And we’d have, like, you know, we make all these changes and decide that, you know, we’re going to implement Rockefeller habits, we’re going to do this. And then three months later, they all sort of fell to the wayside. It wasn’t until I got Patrick in that I was able to keep up the level of commitment and the level of intensity and processes and systems that allowed us to get to the end goal of ultimately selling to a fortune 1000, a fortune 500 company, actually.

And I think of also you Santiago about commitment, how I’ve been here with you now for a year and a half. And I [00:58:00] truly, sometimes when I wake up in the morning, I know I’m going to be working out. I’m like nervous and you know, almost like I don’t want to do it, but I have that commitment and I’ve managed to stick with it.

So just Santiago and Patrick, you know, before we close out here, I was hoping each of you could just talk a little bit about commitment and why coaching helps with that Santiago. Yes, absolutely great. One. I’m calling, um, motivation is fleeting and, um, nowadays, you know, a lot of people are waiting, expecting, seeking out motivation, and it’s just, you know, I compare motivation to our moods.

It’s just up and down, right. Whereas when we make a serious commitment, you know, and more importantly, commitment to ourselves when we have these conversations with ourselves and we have these thoughts and we wake up in the morning and I go to sleep at night. And then those between moments where we’re questioning everything we do, [00:59:00] it’s, it’s having that commitment to like, okay, I,

I deep inside know what I should be doing. And I know what I should be doing, having commitment to that, you know, and making a, an, a sort of decision. And then once we have a commitment to ourself and we bring somebody in on that commitment that only solidifies and enhances, you know, that determination to comply to that commitment.

All right. Great. Patrick, I think Dr. Julie said it best, you know, uh, as a coach, um, all I did call and was bringing out what was already in you. So as a coach, we don’t create commitment. Uh, you really chose to sign up to a program. So your choice, you made a choice. Uh, and then you’ve got to commit to that [01:00:00] choice.

When clients commit to the choices, I enjoy myself coaching when clients don’t commit to their choices and I become the kindergarten. Guy that tries to make you do what you don’t really want to do. That doesn’t work. So commitment really comes from you. And in our case, it did come from you, right? You, you realize that the program was important versus an event, and then you committed to the program.

So the commitment really comes from you and as critical. Absolutely. And, uh, you know, when I think back on both my CrossFit and on the, uh, the work that you did as coach for my businesses, um, the commitments occurred because I, I had confidence. I was doing the right thing. You know, when you’re on your own, you don’t necessarily have that confidence.

And by the way, the people around you don’t necessarily have that confidence in you as well as a leader. But I just felt like I [01:01:00] had the confidence. And because of that confidence, I think that’s what helped with the. Um, the other thing too, is quite frankly, I just didn’t want to let either of you down, you know, you you’ve worked so hard to help me out.

I felt like I had needed to reciprocate by actually delivering the results. I know that sounds weird. It sounds a bit odd, you know, what would making another million dollars motivate me more than embarrassing myself in front of Patrick at a strategic planning session? Uh, I don’t know. I mean, the reality is it’s, uh, it’s, it’s having that commitment, confidence and, and the people around you.

So thank you very much. Any last words real quick, Patrick or Santiago? I think that’s what Santiago said just now, right? Is that you sometimes do perform more for the other person than for yourself. And you just said that, so that’s very insightful. Okay. Yeah, that’s great. And, uh, I just wanted to let you know if you haven’t already done, so check out the session last week with Jeffrey Moore inside the genetics crossing the chasm it’s OnStar.

Dot club. Uh, Rachel, next [01:02:00] Friday we have, uh, another author coming on. Can you just share who that author is?

Do you have that handy? You know, calling, Hey everybody, I do have that information handy. However, he did cancel with us, um, with intent to postpone. So I’m working with him now on getting that, that session jotted down at a later date, but we’ve got John Mullins coming up on the fourth, the, um, uh, February the customer funded business.

He’s going to be joining us with Verne Harnish, the author of scaling up and mastering the Rockefeller habits. And so we’re going to be talking about financing and growing your startup, um, in customer funding. Okay. Oh, that’s, that’s great. And uh, we have a number of other authors and if you really want to be in the know, go to and sign up to that email list, I mean, it’s incredible.

The kind of people that we’re bringing onto the planet. Thank you very much. Again, the power of the community, Dr. Julie, [01:03:00] Olivia, Steven, you know, everyone on stage Patrick and Santiago. Thank you very much. We shall see you next week on the serial entrepreneur.


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