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Serial Entrepreneur: Secrets Revealed! – EP82

[00:00:00] This is Serial Entrepreneur Secrets Revealed. And by the way, we have almost hit 900,000 members. There’s my co moderator, Jeff. I know you, Francine pretty well. And there’s my other co moderator, Michelle Van Tilborg, and I’m Colin C Campbell. And you are listening to the Serial Entrepreneur Secrets Revealed.

It is a live show on Clubhouse and it is also on podcast. And if you are listening to this in podcast, we do the show every Friday at two o’clock Eastern. So please, if you’re interested in, in, in coming on stage or joining the live show, you can do that. Anyone can join you. Just go to Or you can actually go to Clubhouse and go to the Startup Club. Join that club. And then check out our show every Friday at two o’clock Eastern. Wow. Michelle, Jeff, I’m excited about today. It’s about web three. I don’t know what your thoughts are on that. Sure. Web three, we’ve had, we’ve done a few shows around web [00:01:00] three, right?

I know we’ve done this at the third show. I think we’ve done talking about web three. Yeah. For me, I’m just trying to learn and absorb what the opportunities are. And I’ll tell you Jeff and Colin, it’s been difficult because I keep asking, wow where should I go? Like, how do I even dip a toe it, How do I even figure out what it is?

How do I even experience it? And even that basic level of a question has been a bit challenging. I really haven’t gotten any good response, but what I have learned lately, listening to the news is actually robo blocks seems to be the. And the engagement is extremely high. And it’s mostly with young children.

So I’m really interested to hear what Dr. Francine is going to say, because I know she’s done a great deal of research [00:02:00] on this subject. So I’m just really, I’m sitting here with my pen and my paper and I’m gonna take lots of notes. Dr. You’re what? Yes. I’m gonna take notes on what you have to say because I’m really interested to know, like, how do I even experience this?

And we’re really interested to know, because, some of us are a bit skeptical, I’m gonna say is, how do you even understand what Web three oh is and what the opportunities. Michelle, but you could tell the truth. You’re not using a pen and paper, you’re using it remarkable too. So you do have a, you are up to date with more of a digital platform for that note.

Yeah. . Yeah. Hey, Dr. It’s great to see you as well, and Colin, I think it would be great if we could get Francine to tell us, we were talking before you joined Francine about FTX a little bit, and, crypto’s in the news in a big way, but there’s a lot of confusion, I think between,[00:03:00] cryptocurrency, blockchain, web three.

How do you cut through all that and understand what are they all, what are the differences and what really, how do you define Web three? Hey, Jeff. There’s, there really isn’t a definition now, and that is part of the problem because there are several pieces that are not yet joined together in any meaningful utility.

And I would say that the way that you understand Web three is to understand the pieces and then just wait for them to some, brilliant person or maybe you to put the pieces together. It’s you said Roblox Michelle. Roblox, by the way, used to have nothing to do with Web three and [00:04:00] actually really doesn’t have anything to do with Web three.

ROBLOX was a children’s programming service and a children’s programming tool, and it turned out that children loved it and they all learned to code on Roblox, and then adults started making up games on Roblox, and that’s how it got so big. But it really doesn’t have very much to do with Web three. People, Yes, it has its own money.

See? All right, let me think where I’m gonna start this. This is hard to start. I’m sorry. I agreed to do it because I wanna make sure that I get to FTX and, and what you were talking about before, because that is, some of the big news, but, Okay. And also Michelle, to [00:05:00] your feelings, because I was around during bust.

Okay. The dot combust, which occurred in the year 2000 put an end to the first exciting. eCommerce companies and internet companies because when the internet first became accessible, when browsers first became accessible people started up all kinds of businesses. And what happened was they basically got wiped out.

In the stock market crash and all the money went away and they all all the public companies just f it is exactly like ftx exactly like what’s happening. The public companies went away and it was quite a wipe out. And I think the kind of [00:06:00] activity we’re seeing now is the same kind of wipe out.

And what it does is it clears up the traffic on the two 80 and the 1 0 1 because all the people who went to Silicon Valley to make a quick buck got fired. Or their startups closed down or, whatever, and they all go home, or they all go to cheaper places to live. Or they just give up and very few people remain.

But you have to remember that for two things. The first thing is that for every thing that goes away, there’s always one or two that do well. For instance, eBay was founded during that era, and it didn’t go away. It continued, and so did Amazon. Amazon was founded [00:07:00] during that period. Man, I can remember hearing Jeff Bezos speak, and the thing about Jeff Bezos is that he always believed.

In sticking around and investing. He doesn’t really believe in taking the money and running. So he stuck around and eventually he built a firm foundation under Amazon and eBay and also PayPal started at that time. And so because PayPal started as a way for people to pay eBay sellers so that was all part of the infrastructure.

And while lots of things went away because for instance, there were Delivery food delivery services and everybody said, Aha, haha, that’s ridiculous. But the truth is that although I’ve forgotten what the [00:08:00] first dog delivery service, dog food delivery service that went broke was, but there is now a, an extremely popular dog, food delivery service,

But you had to have more. Structure and people have to know more about how to run an online business. And that is exactly what the problem is with Web three. Web three is a terminology, a vague terminology that has no actual meaning other than it is a demarcation in time marking a difference between itself and Web two, which was the last era.

What was Web two? Web two was social media and the party line on Web three is that the difference between IT and [00:09:00] Web two is that people could own. A piece of the rock, so to speak, could own a piece of the business because all these web three businesses would be decentralized and governed by something called dows, decentralized autonomous organizations.

The doubt is a business model. Go ahead, Colin. Yeah, so I can give you a chance to breathe there. Wow. What a, what an intro. And I’m looking forward to hearing more about how, I don’t know how I’m gonna get through it in any. You will. It’s gonna be fun. It’s gonna be a lot of fun.

But what I’d like from the audience, if you have a question or you have an expertise in web three, please raise your hand. It’s Friday afternoon. We like to have fun with this show. The second thing is, there’s a button right on the bottom there, second to the left. And if you could just share the room on Clubhouse.

Cause I think this is a topic. A lot of people are gonna wanna listen to. It’s all about how do we actually make [00:10:00] money from Web three Frane, as you were talking. It’s just fascinating. I’ve lived that life for 25 years and, I started with a dial up internet and then we did a company called Two Cows, which was downloading oh, you did downloadable software cows.

I was one of founders. One of the three founders. Yes. And then we did company with a very good reputation. Yeah. And they eventually evolved into a domain and they launched a telecom service called Ting. And then after that in the two thousands, I did the hostopia, which was a cloud-based hosting and email platform for telecoms, which we sold to at and t and others.

And then we, And then now Michelle, Jeff and I are running Startup Club and it’s just really been a passion of ours. To grab onto these new technologies. So as this, as the internet has evolved, there have been huge opportunities. And I know Jeffrey Moore who we have had on as a guest on this show, nowhere as good as Francine here of course, but he was around [00:11:00] before man tracked out.

He really defined that the different cycles around the chasm, and he’s still right. And that is what’s happening now with web three. The early adopters still believe in web three, but they can’t describe whether what they believe in is. Business model for Web three, which is the decentralized autonomous organization or the Dow, which provides the funding and also some of the profits which is, one end of it or the blockchain part of it, which is the infrastructure that keeps things alive forever.

Or the cryptocurrency, which [00:12:00] doesn’t really have to be there. Now that you know that, now that I’ve been up and down these roads enough times, I’m not sure that it even needs cryptocurrency. But those are the three pieces. The three pe Go ahead, Jeff. No, I was gonna say, I think, in my mind, you touched on it earlier, Francine, when you used the word utility, you mentioned utility.

And it seems that, for many years now, we’ve heard about blockchain technology. We’ve heard about cryptocurrency we’ve had Bitcoin and all the other different coins that came out and the rise and fall of ICOs and all this stuff. And it seems like Web three is actually trying to leverage bits and pieces of those different technologies, including Dows and everything else, and bringing them into some form where there’s actual utility where you can actually do some with it.

Like we’re talking about Exactly. Turning your business into Web three, using web three to make a business. Exactly. And a lot of people have already tried to do that. Some of them have tried to [00:13:00] do it by taking the blockchain piece of it and putting things on the blockchain to provide, Per perfect authenticity and providence and keeping them alive forever.

And then other people have taken the cryptocurrency piece of it, which is the piece of how you raise funds or how you pay for it, or how you use a self sovereign currency. And then the other piece of it, the dow, a lot of people and companies have formed Dows and some of some are working better than others.

But the, we are in such a, an incredible era of change and tumble that unless you really understand everything, I [00:14:00] don’t know where I’ve participated in all three pieces. Let me put it that way. I was part of a Dow called Constitution Dow. I’m sure you guys remember that, which was a couple of years ago, a communal effort to buy a copy of the United States Constitution and that do as a fundraising vehicle, raised something like 45 million in a week from people who believe that the Constitution should be owned by the people, and you made a contribution and you know you got your ownership.

In the same way that you would get your ownership in a regular company, in shares, or in pieces of the Dow. And we didn’t succeed because a regular financial company, even richer than our little 45 million [00:15:00] co-op came in and. And beat us out. And, but what was really fortunate was that the people who started Constitution Dow were honest and serious, and they promised everybody that if we didn’t succeed, they would give us back our money.

So that was a Dow that had utility. Okay. It was definitely a web three project, but it lacked the worst of the web, three features of the last couple of years, which are, like rug pulls and taking the money and running and dishonest Ponzi scheme type of stuff. So very different.

They gave us back all of our money. So my one experience in part, being part of a Dow was very positive. My [00:16:00] experience in buying cryptocurrency by and large was, they’re also very positive because I got in early on Bitcoin and I got in and out and, the Dow and the cryptocurrency part were great, but the business case wasn’t there for me because still now what it is.

And it’s less that because the early days are over and the regulators are on it. But, for me, cryptocurrency was an investment that played pretty well for me from about two four 2014 on. And so there you are. But you know that, Yeah. You said Franci. There was a third one. So you got the Dow and you got the crypto and you said there was a third one that the blockchain, blockchain that you participated.

Okay, [00:17:00] got it. And what was I participated in, my experience with the blockchain was that I started the Karma coin and the Karma Coin Ex existed on the Ethereum blockchain. And my experience with Rally and the Karma coin was not so hot because rally the social token part of Rally failed.

But that wasn’t Ethereum’s fault. And Ethereum still there. And, the blockchain part of it worked well. So all of my experiences have been positive, but then my, My big takeaway is would I put an ordinary business into it now? No, because it’s not ready. It has these three pieces. I’ve experienced them all as three separate pieces, but I can’t think of who has [00:18:00] experienced them as one piece that’s been successful.

Doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. It means, I don’t know. And you know what I’ve found about, FTX and all these other, things is these are not web three companies. These are old fashioned scams. Exactly. That’s repeating back what you said, Dr. Francine, that’s what happened in 2002.

We had saw the Under. Jeff, Your favorite there. You always talk about and everybody talks about, but if you think about two weeks beginning, it was the beginning of the emergence of the great internet that became something huge. And is that the case with Web three?

It’s going through one of those tough times right now. See? I think so. I really think so. And I’m stuck because, I this, the topic I promised [00:19:00] you I would talk about is making Web three a real business. And I don’t think you can do it right now. It’s hard enough starting a business without trying to deal with an unfamiliar business model and the, and blockchains that are not, a lot of blockchains that aren’t stable.

and a lack of regulation. So you don’t know, you know who is gonna start the next scam on you, But, so I don’t know. But the but is, aren’t these things all tools and just there have big Ponzi schemes for forever and they just use the latest and greatest technology. So if web three and blockchain and crypto is the latest and greatest technology, there are certain people who will figure out ways to.

Good things with it and bad things with it. So I think the [00:20:00] example you gave though, I think was really informative Francine with the Constitution Dow because they did manage to combine best practices of any business, which is honesty truth sticking, sticking to, the terms of what the deal was supposed to be.

But at the same time, leveraging some of these new technologies with blockchain and crypto to be able to raise funds to participate in an auction for the copy of the Constitution, That even though they didn’t win the auction, they had a chance to play only because of these new technologies, but also because they applied proper.

Sincere business practices to it. So there should be ways, and I’m sure there will be emerging companies that will do the same, that will, use the best of old school business, combine it with the new capabilities these technologies bring, and create and invent amazing businesses that will be talking about 20 and 30 years from now.

Just like you’re talking [00:21:00] about eBay and Amazon today. Yeah. And that’s what I believe, Jeff. That’s, that is exactly what I believe. I don’t, I didn’t mean to come off disappointed or disillusioned, with Web three, I actually had a lot of fun. I learned a lot. I talked to a lot of really intelligent, creative entrepreneurs.

I certainly learned about the blockchain and what its potential and its limits are. And And I met some really innovative people mostly artists who have, who have found their audiences through NFTs, which I hadn’t even mentioned yet. But I have a lot of NFTs that belong to women artists, marginalized artists who have taken their art audiences globally [00:22:00] by making NFTs and sharing with a wider audience.

And I hope they don’t get crushed, when the regulations come down because we still have an uncomfortable, unfamiliar regulatory environment around is an NFT. A real work of art or is it is it a jpeg you know or whatever. So yeah, it’s, and in the music industry it should provide ways for music to be crowdsourced by the musician and, and people have shares in songs that they really love and that business model is coming along also, fans can really [00:23:00] participate in this.

Francine, how, you’re very good at building communities, I can see that. Do you know if you, if there’s an artist in the audience or a musician in the audience and they wanted to, and I know NFTs, it’s hard to even talk about it right now given everything that’s happened, but there is something there and something will eventually emerge.

Exactly. Exactly. Absolutely. You’re an artist. You create your NFTs, Okay, there’s some technical things here. Let’s not go there. Let’s not go there. Let’s not worry about the regulations for now. How do they get attention? How do you get people to look at your work? How do you actually make sales?

That has what has proven to be the hardest part. The hardest part. If you already have an audience, you get on Discord or Drug of choice and for actually for web three, it turns out that it almost always is discord. I don’t really like [00:24:00] Discord and other artists have used Twitter and you find your audience there and you build it by being really community minded over a long period of time.

And one of the things that happened, the weaknesses of web three’s original founders, is that I think that the hardest part that they couldn couldn’t understand is how hard it would be to build attention and get community. And I think it takes a lot longer to build a really good community than any.

anybody thought, because somehow they thought, because Web three said that community was the difference between it and web two, that every web three project came in with a built in community [00:25:00] and they turned out to not be true. And so a lot of them were severely severely shocked by how much work you had to do to build a community.

And, I, yeah. You know how you build a community, It’s a slog. It is a major slog. You get in early, it’s like the communities on clubhouse, you get in early, you make a tremendous contribution of time. Which was easy for me because I am older and I don’t have a nine to five job and I, I can spend time in rooms basically marketing myself on Clubhouse or same.

I did the same thing on Twitter. I got on in 2006 and I built an audience [00:26:00] just by being there and being the person and not being obnoxious. So that when you got on Twitter you were recommended to follow me early on, or if you were looking for people who had knowledge of Silicon Valley or with Clubhouse, the same thing, if you were looking for a safe person to follow on Clubhouse, That person was me and I was on suggested user lists before, before I knew there even were suggested user lists.

And then you just have to keep at it. I, when Clubhouse didn’t monetize correctly for creators and everybody streamed off the platform saying, Screw you Clubhouse, you’ve failed us, blah, blah, blah. They forgot to take into account the fact [00:27:00] that Clubhouse too is a startup. And startup can’t provide those kinds of opportunities that Instagram or YouTube, provide.

So they got mad at Clubhouse and they went. And I stayed , and now they’re all filtering back because they’ve tried everything else. And it’s even harder than Clubhouse because social audio is hard. It is. And getting to 900,000 members on startup club and getting great speakers like you and other moderators who open rooms on the club, it’s been it’s been, you have to do it.

You have to do it week after week. And truthfully, Ed, when he Was first running startup club. He just spent 24 7 on clubhouse, growing startup club, getting moderators, opening rooms, doing all this kind of stuff. In, in fact to the point where you couldn’t talk [00:28:00] to him about anything.

No, he burnt out. He really burnt out. I remember. Yes, I remember that. So that’s when Michelle and Jeff and I stepped in to help him out, and he handed the baton and we’re, we’re doing our best. But I think that it is, it’s going through growing pains. It’s every one of these technologies we talk about, at Jeffrey Moore talks about the chasm.

Is the chasm. That’s right. We need, what we need to do is, what we need to do is position ourselves for when the tornado comes, for, when the early majority start grabbing onto that technology. And of course, it, unfortunately, Colin, if you have fomo. It’s easy to position yourself. I’m, I’ve been saved many times in building community by my fomo.

My FOMO brings me to try everything early, , and it’s, although it has its downsides, it also means that when everyone else comes, I’m already there. Yeah. Alright. We have Renee on the [00:29:00] stage here. Thank you, Renee, for joining us. We have Dr. Fran scene, Hardaway talking to us. Web three and running real businesses on web three.

Renee, do you have some expertise or on web three or a question to ask Dr. Francine? I was just gonna share a little piece about the business model and web three in particular with what is happening with NFTs right now. I think that there are a lot of people in this space who aren’t great business people.

There are a lot of creative people who are in that space right now. And so what part of the growing pain that you’re seeing is is that alone, right? And the business model was built off of royalties and there are now marketplaces that are not honoring royalties or not requiring royalties. And so it’s really upsetting the business model.

Another thing that is happening, if you launch a project like this, That requires royalties, then you need [00:30:00] people to sell and you need a constant churn, which is the antithesis of what a traditional business would want because you, in a NFT project, you have a limited quantity and you need the royalties in order to have income.

This is your business model, and you need churn. So you need people to sell and buy because it’s based on trading. Whereas in a traditional business, if you’re working in SaaS for interest, for instance, or any sort of recurring revenue model, churn is your enemy. So I think that these two factors colliding, is causing a bit of an issue.

But the other thing, , that , I’m laughing Renee, because a bit of an issue is a major understatement. I’m, trying to stay focused on the bigger things than the issues of the week. Because I think there’s still gonna be lots of those kinds of things. But the other big opportunity that I think is being missed is the wave of what is happening with [00:31:00] brands and marketing and how this can support a lot of it.

What drew me to this space was there’s a wave happening where community driven marketing is it’s having a moment and it’s probably going to surpass buyer driven marketing. So we’ve moved from, post World War II and an age of product driven. And then we moved into sort of a, the expertise, the trusted expert with the sales driven marketing, and then the internet allowed for buyer driven marketing where the buyer could determine their own journey and come into it and educate themselves.

They didn’t have to have the expert explain things to them. And what we’re seeing now is people really not wanting to have to do all of that work. On a new form of trust through their community, right? And this is where reviews and other things have bubbled up in the web one, web two. And now if you align yourself with a community of people that think [00:32:00] similarly to you, you trust them to make recommendations for things.

And I think this is a big piece of Web three that hasn’t completely been unlocked. So when you look for the business model Achilles heels of this idea of churn and how does that work with scarcity and, come out of that trading culture and that crypto trading culture, right? And look for business models that don’t rely on that within web three, because you don’t have to have that in order to be success.

That just is the business model that exists right now. And then you think about how you can build a tribe and a community. Enables community driven marketing for your go to market merchants, you end up being able to create far more demand around a brand. And that’s another piece that’s I think is really missing right now is most of these are launched as projects.

Dr. Francine mentioned artists and musicians. It was a project to them. And when people see things as a project, they don’t feel invested because it’s [00:33:00] doesn’t feel long term when these mature into brands and people feel like they will be around for the long term, which is another piece of the growing pains of people saying that people der launch things, dapper labs or you go some are right. So when they emerge from project to brand, people feel that there will be more more of a lifespan of these things. So those are the top three things that I would say are really converging right now and creating so much chaos. I think Renee, it’s interesting you bring that up and I think when you go into the marketing side of it, when you’re talking about going from projects to brands, it’s really going from campaigns to relationships, right?

Where a lot of things were thought of as a campaign versus as we get into more of that social selling and dealing with influencers, brands make the mistake of treating influencer marketing as a campaign, when in fact it needs to be a long term [00:34:00] relationship. And I think one of the pieces that NFTs, for example, there are some good examples where I understand the churn issue and it’s a great point, but outside of churn, there’s this idea of using.

The NFT as a representation of membership, right? So there’ve been a lot of experiments with even, restaurants or clubs or parties and events where the only way you had access was if you were a holder of the nft. And what’s also interesting about that is it’s still a tradable asset or commodity so that you could pass along that membership a lot easier than you can today with other clubs, right?

If I’m a member of a country club, I can’t just very easily hand off my membership to someone else. But with these NFT type membership situations in theory you could, whoever holds the well, you can. There’s a, there is one utility token that’s a membership organization called Recur.

And Recur is more of a brand [00:35:00] than a project. And I can sell my recur pass entitles me to Other NFT drops or whatever. And also I can sell my recur pass to somebody else, and the recur Pass itself can go up in value. So that is a case where something is increasing in value, but the, but it’s increasing based on real utility, not based on speculation.

And that’s, that, that’s where I think the NFTs are going to come back. They’re gonna come back as utility NFTs. And, really Clubhouse is in the process of releasing, and I hate to use Clubhouse as an example so many times, but I’ve been watching Clubhouse develop since it very first began, and I’ve watched it pivot and change.

Is gonna token gate [00:36:00] some rooms, and that’s gonna make the creation of utility tokens on clubhouse, take off. So we’re really in the, I’m You cut out for a minute there. You said they’re gonna tokenize, they’re gonna token gate rooms. They’ve already, How’s that released? Token gated rooms to get in, you need a token.

You need, they they have token gated houses. So right now, if you were to purchase the CH Wame token and you connect your wallet and they use plaid for the connection, if you connect your wallet and it’s in one of the releases, you can go to your settings to do that and have that token and you would automatically be admitted into that.

So there are a couple other people who, communities that already have tokens they’ve connected in, but that’s the only one I know of that you could go purchase into right now. I have actually [00:37:00] tried to connect my wallet. They’re just beta testing everything. So I’ve tried fomo girl here. I’ve tried to connect my wallet and I haven’t been able to do so yet, but I am going to keep trying because every time they, I know this is their strategy and and it is a way they create, they’re gonna make it possible for creators to monetize.

And so I am going to keep trying and eventually I’ll get my wallet connected and then I’ll come back and report to you what I am able to buy or not buy. Fran, your next creator coin is gonna have to be dollar sign, fomo. Forget corn. Oh, yeah. , That’s funny. But true. They’ve also tested as a test, but also as a little thank you fund, they created a token and airdropped it to the first 100 people who connected their wallet to Clubhouse.

And that’s what I [00:38:00] tried, Renee. That’s exactly what it doesn’t do anything right now. It’s all a test, it is nice to watch it emerge. To just be a part of it, to think about. I look at it for business uses. But I, the other thing I just wanted to point out with the NFTs is there is another form of NFT where you can have a sole bound token.

Is married to that wallet and is not traded. Those would, I would, from a marketing point of view, from a brand point of view, I equate those, for instance, to your most loyal fans. And there are business models that help you emerge out of that, like trading culture and where you can confirm who would be your members for utility and other things like that.

So I, and those are brand, if I understand it correctly, those are relat like less than six months old where those types of contracts are emerging. So it is an exciting time. It’s for mostly musicians have been using them. Renee you have just illustrated one of my big points. I know I, I’ve been on stages with you [00:39:00] before and I know that you’ve.

Involved in web three for a very long time, and that in your day job you are a brand marketer and you are doing exactly what you’re supposed to do to, to benefit from new trends. You get there early and you learn. You learn as much as you can and then you stay in the community and eventually that has a business purpose for you.

I just know it will. I like it. Very knowledgeable. I like it. I think it’s good advice for all of us. We have Natalie on the stage as well. I think you’re a bit of an N F T expert. Natalie, do you have some thought? About this whole web three and how we can actually make money for it. I don’t know that anybody is an expert in Web three

I’ve been in a space, crypto much longer, but NFTs and all that and the beginning, sorry, s at my window, which is weird. [00:40:00] Oh, that’s my long, Sorry. You are, you have been around nft, you two have been in rooms that I’ve been in and we’ve all been learning together. And I think what we should be saying, and you brought it up, is there are no experts in web three period.

And if anybody says that, I would encourage you to run. My main issue with the token g on Clubhouse and that kind of the kind of framework since they’re trying to push forward in Clubhouse is that those of us who have been, I don’t if I named all the names we’d be here to like next November but there are a lot of people that help craft and cultivate and nurture the community around Web three and NFTs.

And a little bit of Dow stuff. And the Dow stuff was mostly on Twitter, but in Discord and those spaces. But Clubhouse mainly did not pay attention to those of us who were building the culture here on Clubhouse and onboarding. Like literally we were up for two or three days sometimes not healthy.

And I don’t once our Yelp [00:41:00] review for that , but I just find it very I’m just gonna be frank here, like problematic and also very Interesting. That clubhouse is going this route without even including those of us who they didn’t pump our rooms and like we weren’t asking for that. However it’s just very funny and the justice position is quite interesting and I’ll land here.

My last point is that A lot of people are asking like, how do they make money In Web three, what you really should be asking is how I build genuine community and how I nurture those communities. How do I really rethink how and reimagine hopefully through radically lens doing business in web three?

Because some of the frameworks that we’ve built in the traditional business world, whatever that means these days don’t necessarily work in web three. Some of them don’t. Some of them are actually quite counter to the ethos here. Some of them are counter to what we hopefully, collectively believe and what we’re trying to build here.

And so how do we make space for people to come into like Web three? But also those same people like onboarded to the actual culture of crypto and Web three I. Porting some of the business [00:42:00] models that are, let’s be frank here, like very extractive and problematic. And so I think there’s so many ways people can live their best lives, As I say in Web three.

However that takes sometimes a little rethinking and retooling in our own brains how we want to exist here and how we want to coexist with other people. Cuz the space is all about community, all about connecting with others, all about nurturing each other, not saying that. And if you’re just looking at the surface level of this space, you’re going to get some very interesting folks and people and I’m just encouraging people to dig deeper and really rethink how they wanna do business and how they can actually not build customer bases, but build community bases.

And that’s empowering people to really get involved in your business and get involved in participating. And so we become parts participants in not just cons consumers or customers. And so I just wanna encourage people to go a little bit deeper and really rethink how they exist here, if that is it.

Go, Natalie I’ve seen you also, and I’ve heard your advocacy before [00:43:00] and I know that you have really tried to create a community on Clubhouse around web three. That’s awesome. Yeah it’s really good advice. I learned this whole idea. We have to learn, find the opportunity, and then seize the day.

Any thoughts, Andre, any questions for anyone on the stage, including Dr. Francine Hardaway in regards to Web three or an experience or idea you have of how to make money on Web three? Hi everyone. No, I just wanna thank you. It’s been a really interesting conversation. These are I think there are very interesting times.

Things are changing fast. The blockchain implementation is changing. Now with the proof of stake changes versus the proof of work. The cost of writing smart contracts and executing them is much, much faster than before. So things are gonna be, [00:44:00] we’re gonna be able to things much faster now and write blockchain apps that do more.

I think companies shouldn’t be. Targeting that much like making, like trying to make like that much of a profit right now. Like basically these are times to work on proof of concepts and let the grounds for the future and then worry about like profits.

Yeah. Great. Thank you very much. I think the proof of stake was a big innovation cuz I think the environmental impact of the cryptocurrencies was, it’s pretty damaging on the platform. And I know that it uses like one, 100th of the amount of power versus proof of work. Did I get that right or did I get that backwards?

Doctor ? No, that’s right. But now it’s it’s [00:45:00] 99.5% faster and more less energy consuming. So you have to beat down the objections of the old guard because they’re not gonna go down without a fight. There’s a lot of entrenched business models and money in the Old Guard and Athere and Proof at Stake was really the first step in he helping everybody be able to use the blockchain without fighting the environmental concerns that everyone threw up, now they’re of course going to throw up the fraud concerns, but we can make them go away. Also, if we, as Natalie said, really focus on building communities where we know each other and where the effort is cooperative not, win lose. [00:46:00] Yeah, we it makes total sense. And I know, Daniel, you’ve got some expertise.

Welcome back on stage. It’s really nice to see you again. What are your thoughts on web three? Or do you have a question here for anyone on the stage? Humbling words, they might be calling expertise? Wow, I haven’t heard that in a while. I was, I’ve been listening to what Natalie has said and Andreas, and one thing that came to my thought with Natalie and I really agree with her, is that it’s important to build community and use that and build an ecosystem.

It’s better to do that, but only to think about the end goal of the kitchen, especially. This is what I’ve noticed through the Dow, that I’m a part of the ecosystem that I’m actually building with other people, with the community. Because I’m actually doing it at the moment, literally. And what I’ve seen is it’s importance of actually giving importance to other people and working together.

Now that we are [00:47:00] transitioning into a web free environment in which we have that ownership, that we can have that sovereignty and work together. It’s so important for us to gather that and be more cooperative, use these tools and just move forward step by step. And that’s me. I’m complete. Thank you Colin.

And thank you everyone for allowing me on stage.

And I think it’s worth noting, Colin, just not to get people sidetracked on the money making thing. The room is titled Making Web three A Real Business. We’re not necessarily focusing on the money making, but focusing on really trying to find utility and ways to use these technologies to actually do something that provides value to the people participating.

And in my humble opinion, somebody who really impeded that progress was Andrewsson Horowitz because they threw piles of [00:48:00] money at some of these projects and companies before they were ready for it and before they could deploy it. And I, this is what I noticed during Web one also, that when you give an entrepreneur who is really trying to do something different, too much money, It doesn’t help.

It attracts the wrong team players. It attracts the wrong ethos. It is not the right thing to do. It’s better not to throw a ton of money into startup companies. It doesn’t necessarily help them grow better. And I think Andrews and Harrow, they didn’t ruin web three cuz it is gonna happen and I think their faith in it is well placed.

But I think that they, when you give companies, 125 million before [00:49:00] they even have a proof of concept that just. That just is always misspent. Yeah. Too much money too soon allows you to skip a lot of the learning stages. It’s if you, if someone handed you a super car, a McLaren or Ferrari, the very first time you took, you learn to drive when you were 15 or 16 years old, it’s a good chance you’re gonna crash it.

Because you didn’t have the learning stages of going from slower vehicles to faster vehicles. Yeah. I call it, I think I call it Silicon Valley disease. I’ve nicknamed it that in in the book that the upcoming book starts scale, exit repeat. That will be out in March. I’ve seen it too often.

And what’s unfortunate about that is the entrepreneur usually walks away with. Even if they can get some residual value for the company, all that money will go to the venture capitalist. They used to, Yeah. They used to walk away with nothing. The whole model has changed now to where they also can get taken out [00:50:00] earlier.

And that is another discouragement to true innovation, so that they actually should walk away with just the learnings, but many of them don’t. Recently, I don’t know how the only one I know is the clubhouse, when a six and Z funded clubhouse, it took out Paul and Rohan, they didn’t get what they hoped they’re gonna get at the end of the day, but they, it, they received a sum of money.

each way before they knew whether the company was gonna be a success or not. This has been a fascinating hour. We have five minutes left. I don’t know if there’s any last comments from anyone on the panel here. If somebody wants to learn more about Web three, where do they go?

What would be their first thing they should do? Is there an actual club on Web three or the Clubhouse? I don’t know. What are your thoughts?[00:51:00] I have some thoughts, but I’m sure Natalie and Renee have more. There’s a Web three reading club that, I’m sorry, a web three reading house that is run by, It’s very hard now to know the difference between the clubs and the houses and say it correctly, but there is a web three reading house for people who are interested in Web three.

And they literally are reading articles and books and so on. And Natalie, do you have a club? I don’t have a club . I’m in everybody else’s club. You can mostly see me hanging out in neighborhood jewelry or a blockchain gospel. I got the red bar. So I’m mostly there. And Renee I was just gonna mention that I popped into this room while I was getting some work done because I feel like there aren’t enough public.

Spaces [00:52:00] talking about this. And that’s how I learned about this, was on Clubhouse and learned, all about NFTs and early 2021. And I popped in to just share a thought and listen a little because there’s not enough happening in public spaces. Right now, as someone mentioned earlier, so much is in the discord.

So much is in, these already existing communities that if you don’t know, you don’t know I just as much as anybody who does know can jump into public spaces and that are not all Twitter spaces, cuz not everybody’s over there . And there’s a place called, there’s a content creator called the Rundown on Clubhouse who used to have public rooms all the time and taught people about cryptocurrency and issued an NFT called Little Hippo.

And the, I don’t know what happened to him because his rooms were fascinating and taught me a lot, but the, I think people accused him [00:53:00] of doing a rug pole with Little Hippo because people didn’t really understand how long it takes to actually build community. I just wanted to share that it’s really nice to see something happening in the public space and as much as people still keep some of this in the public space, that it helps more people enter the ecosystem, which is the healthiest thing for it all.

I think it’s been great that, we have an opportunity to talk about these new technologies and how entrepreneurs and how startups and founders can think of ways to make money and start their businesses. Cause I, I’ve seen it happen over and over again from the dial up internet to broadband, to social, to the blockchain.

It’s over and over again. There has been opportunities and there’s a time and a place when it becomes, the yearly majority grabs onto it. And there’s big rewards for the entrepreneurs. Thank you very much again, Dr. Francine Hardway, and I’d love to have you back [00:54:00] on other shows in the future and everyone else on stage here.

I got the opportunity to follow each of you. If I hadn’t already been following you, there’s a company I hadn’t been following. Especially you, I think it just started following you, Natalie as well. Thanks again, Renee and Andre and Daniel. So that was a great show. Now let me tell you something. We do have something really exciting to announce.

We have a best selling author Mark Sharon Bridge, who’s coming onto our show next Friday at two o’clock Eastern Piece, written a number of best sellers including Nice Bike, and it’s all about how to build sustainable relationships and customers. What we were talking about today, right? Actually how to build a relationship or a rapport with customers so that you can close more deals.

I think that’s part of the equation. That’s part of what we’re trying to do here on this, But you have to change, but you have to change the vocabulary. I don’t see, because that whole close [00:55:00] more deals thing is very old school because it doesn’t necessarily presuppose abundance and because it doesn’t it doesn’t carry through with the community metaphor.

And, Renee and Natalie, I don’t know what you guys would think of this. I do wanna close, Yeah. Do we have to close the show right now? Sorry, but I don’t wanna go into a discussion or debate about whether or not, it does actually help you close deals though, and I know where you’re coming from.

So we building the community first, and then from there the deals will flow. I think what we’re talking about is a little bit different with Mark Sharon Bridge that, he’s developed methods where he can help entrepreneurs, especially entrepreneurs like myself who are not as social as you, Francine, who can’t necessarily build that rapport.

But he’s got some pretty good techniques. To help us do that, and he’s gonna be on next Friday at two o’clock Eastern on the Serial Entrepreneur Secrets Revealed Podcast and live show. Thank you very much again [00:56:00] Francine and everyone else on stage. We’ll see you again next Friday at two o’clock Eastern.

Thanks so much. Thanks everyone. Good to see you, Francine. 


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