SEO Experts Reveal the Secrets!

Wow! What a room this one turned out to be! I walked into it knowing…  nothing about SEO and I walked away from it having learned at least three tips. I really hope my recap brings value to you and your business as you start tackling the World Wide Web and getting the traffic you need for success. 

It comes down to being organic, having a good and strong reputation, and creating quality content. You will get nowhere trying to fool a search engine by stuffing your website with keywords, title tags, and anchor types.

It’s all thanks to our SEO experts Dennis Yu @digitalCEO and Tevin Jackson @searchengine. This was a very informative and educational session. They laid it all out, articulate as ever, to the point and in easy to understand lingo.  Let’s get to it, shall we?

Lead moderator Michele Van Tilborg @vanghost opens up directly with a question for each: 

What are the Top 3 SEO Must Do’s

What are the Top 3 SEO Never’s 

These guys couldn’t stress enough that it comes down to being organic, having a good and strong reputation, and creating quality content. You will get nowhere trying to fool a search engine by stuffing your website with keywords, title tags, and anchor types.

If you really want to win the world of SEO, you have to look at it from the search engine’s point of view and stop trying to trick the engines. What are the signals that you can send to the search engine that are strong and in no viable way, do they indicate that it could be a spammer?

The search engines are looking for links from high-powered media. Remember that backlinks compound, so if you go out and get 20 news backlinks or 20 association backlinks and they posted your notable infographic or your notable blog posts, then you use that to go out and get other high-quality blogs to post about you. If the sites are not high-authority, that’s ok, you can run some paid ads for that post to get more traffic, which Google loves. So, keep that tip in your back pocket.

Many sites use Google analytics for their analytics and of course, Google is using that data. They have something called rank brain which basically lets you audition your traffic, they put you on the first page temporarily and what happens from there determines if you stay on the first page or if you get booted to another page at a lower rank. If people search for (your anchor text) and arrive at your page, then click back to the search results and click down to the next result, that will be a penalty because it means that the user didn’t have a good experience. 

Instead of focusing on what you can do for the search engine, focus on what you can do for the user. Create content that actually does deserve to rank for that particular keyword. Look at the other guys to see if your content is objectively better. If it’s not, then it’s not and it’s not going to last because the rank brain is going to temporarily audition you at spot 15 for example, and then push you down the ranking further.

Ultimately, if you don’t take care of the users then you’re going to get pushed down and Google is going to get better and better at anticipating what the user wants. So don’t think of it as you’re trying to fool Google, think of it instead as Google is representing all these other users and what truly works is content that actually gets traffic and creates a natural signature. 

To have true SEO power, high authority is where it’s being said, who’s saying it, and what is it about? And when you do that, there’s no difference between SEO and high-level PR and community building and relationships and social media.

When it’s all said and done, SEO is not an activity, it is a result. The activity is networking or writing articles, creating content and building relationships, taking care of your customers. The result, the prize, is search engine optimization. The heart of what drives SEO is your relationships and your knowledge, which you cannot outsource. 

Gratitude to Dennis and Tevin for coming by and sharing these extremely practical, valuable tips. We’re thankful to be building these relationships, where we can help each other succeed in our enterprises.

Remember to tune into our Clubhouse room every Friday at 2 PM EST for more educational content that empowers you the serial entrepreneur. 

Be kind out there, nurture your relationships and share your knowledge. The rewards will follow.

  • Read the Transcript

    SE CLUB w Dennis Yu and Tevin 

     Let me start by saying this  if there’s a tree that falls in the forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound.

    [00:00:14] And I actually use that, move that to the internet and say, if we, if you have great content on your clubber business and it can’t be found, does it succeed or do people even know it exists? So this session’s all about SEO and how to set your clubs, set your business, that your website, whatever it is you want to get attention for.

    [00:00:38] How do we actually get position on that? This is interesting because serial entrepreneur club hit the top spot on Google number one in about 30 days. And I was just fascinated by that, that that term hadn’t been used by anyone else. And that we were able to launch it a month ago, build a website with serial, and we were able to hit the top spot on Google.

    [00:01:07] And I’m so excited because we have Dennis you on, on today and that’s very good. We have Kevin and he is the other genius in the room. And I know George is a genius in his own. Right. So we’ll leave it at that. But we also have. Um, Rachel, who’s our, uh, blogger and co-host we have Joe. Yes. And he is the, um, author of a book around marketing.

    [00:01:35] And he’s also a COO and And then we have our lead moderator, Michelle van Tilburg. So I’m going to move it over to Rachel for the Rachel recap. And then Michelle, you take it after that.

    [00:01:48]Hey guys, everyone. Uh, last week we talked to  CEO, our very own Michelle van Tilburg about her 1.4 million following on now intens club. And we also had Edna spawn. We talked to him about his activity here on club house with his various clubs, talk, OJI community, et cetera, and his work with the grand canyons trails association.

    [00:02:25] Check it out. I, serial Remember we’re kind in less club and.

    [00:02:33]No pitching, no plugging, no selling. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Rachel. Thank you so much. All right. Well, I think this is a, an exciting, and it’s going to be a very informative and educational. Session. Um, we’re going to go until three o’clock the top of the hour. So we want to be, you know, very respectful and give our experts time so that we can quickly roll into questions from our audience.

    [00:03:07] So without further ado, I’ll make a brief introduction. We have Dennis Yu. Dennis is the foremost. Yahoo search engineer. So you’re talking to the OJI here, my friends, this gentleman knows SEO, and he’s going to give us the real details on what we need to do for our SEO strategy. We also have the new and very innovative.

    [00:03:33] Kevin, Kevin Johnson. He’s going to tell us what he’s doing now, and what’s actually working for him in that environment. So without further ado, um, I I’d like to do a quick kind of rapid set of questions for our two experts in the room, Kevin and Dennis, and then we can get on to our, um, you know, audience questions.

    [00:04:00] So the first question is this. All right. I think, I think I’m, I’m hoping let’s go with the premise that everyone agrees that SEO is important for anyone, any, or non-profit for that matter. So first let’s start with Dennis, what would you say are the top three? SEO must do. So if you just had to say, do these three things, what would they be?

    [00:04:31] Interview other people that are highest authority, get those interviews onto websites that are highly trafficked by the audience that you want run ads against those pieces of content that you distribute on social and every other channel.

    [00:04:49]I love that, Dennis. Thank you. All right, Kevin Europe, what is your top tips right now that people could do to get STL? Number one would be to enrich your website with keyword optimized content, Google hates thin websites. So I would recommend minimum 30, 40,000 words on your website. If you’re looking to rank.

    [00:05:14] Uh, for, you know, a high niche keyword, uh, two, I would recommend that your title tags are properly optimized and three I’d say, you know, make sure your meta descriptions are properly optimized as well. So three to do’s right out the gate, I’d say focus on your content, focused on your title, tags and focus on your meta descriptions.

    [00:05:36] Great. Excellent. I love this. Okay. So we, we said must dues. All right. So what are the three Keller’s? What are three things that we should not be doing? Dennis? I could this 20, but first off, don’t hire anyone to do SEO unless you understand what you’re doing and how to do it yourself too, is to think that.

    [00:06:02] A technical trick is going to be able to fool someone like me at a search engine, because we can see through a lot of the onsite optimization we can see through link buying. We can see through these exchanges and three is. Just, it’s kind of like the, the thing that you don’t do is the opposite of what you do do, you’ve got to build relationships.

    [00:06:24] The focus is on relationships and not on automation or tools. Tevin is a pro at on-site optimization. Like the things you do at tags and the content that you have on the site, but ultimately in the long run to drive real traffic, I don’t mean just ranking on certain long tail keywords, like low competition keywords, but to rank on high power keywords.

    [00:06:46] You’ve got to generate real links and to do that, you’ve got to focus on relationships. You have to focus on things that are not easily done by robots or tools or spammers. So without going too far into the weeds on detail, when you have high domain authority links. So when I was on CNN and they asked me questions about Mark Zuckerberg and Cambridge Analytica, that is what a Dr.

    [00:07:10] 95 plus link. So whenever you get major media, whenever you get people that are super high authority to link to you, that is a very strong signal. If you want to rank on. Important keywords. If you’re just trying to rank on really niche e-commerce terms that aren’t competitive. If you’re a Kansas city real estate agent, which is medium competition, you don’t need that level of power, but consider who you are competing against.

    [00:07:36] Look at their link profiles and where they’re getting their links from. And we basically just have to follow what’s working for them and don’t do the dumb things. Like buy links, use bad software. We audit so many sites and we’ve got to remove these toxic domains like SEMrush. One of my favorite tools even have a seven day free trial.

    [00:07:56] We’ll show you what those toxic links are. And then you have to do things like submit a disavowal request to Google. So it’s mainly just don’t do dumb things, like understand that SEO is about good content that deserves to rank that lives on sites that Google believes are high authority. You can do that.

    [00:08:13] All this other stuff is going to fall in place for you. That’s amazing, Dennis. Um, I like what you’re saying, and I think I just actually learned something myself about disavow and I hear you reiterating who we keep company with matters. So who’s linking to us and who were linking to us. Makes a big difference.

    [00:08:33] Thank you for that. Now, Kevin, what are the three do nots? The killers. No, Dennis is, it feels like I’m talking to myself when I hear you speak brother. You’re absolutely right. Backlinks are King. Just to make sure they’re evergreen backlinks, like he mentioned, the three killers are definitely going to be keyword over optimization on your anchor text.

    [00:08:53] So if you do go out and get backlinks, just to make sure you’re not over optimizing. Uh, using the exact match anchor types that you’re looking to rank for Google will hit you with an over-optimization penalty. It’s just not organic. So spread out your keyword, anchor text use tools like LFI paste in your anchor text.

    [00:09:13] I mean, you’re a root keyword that you’re looking to rank for, and it’ll give you a lot of different anchor texts to use long tail keywords. These are called latent semantic index keywords. The algorithm goes crazy over them and it just looks more organic and evergreen nods and Google bot. The second killer is going to be over optimization on page.

    [00:09:34] So you never want to layer in the exact match keyword, you know, 20, 30% on the page. That is an over-optimization penalty. You’ll get hit pretty well. And then the third killer I’d say is just having to then have a website. I mean, I can’t tell you how many clients I analyze and their website is. Under 2000 words and they want to rank against the competitor that has a site of 30, 40,000 words.

    [00:09:56] So, you know, top three killers, I’d say over optimization on your anchor text, when it comes to backlinks over optimization on page, when it comes to keyword density. And then of course having to then have a website.

    [00:10:10]Yeah, dude, that’s a pro speaking right there. For sure. Okay. So just to reset the room, we have two experts amidst us, Kevin Jackson. Who’s the new school he’s telling us about what actually works for SEO best practices without getting overly complicated. He’s giving us some good sound advice around it.

    [00:10:38] Content specifically, not too little, not too much of anything natural. Right? I think Tevin, what I’m hearing is a very natural thing for you in terms of what works for content. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I’m standing on the shoulders of giants. I didn’t just learn this in the late two thousands. I actually started early 2000 and, and dentists use time.

    [00:11:01] So my uncle is a, he owns the largest lead generation platform for the dumpster rental industry. I’d probably built 30, 40,000 pages and rank them myself. So, you know, a lot of the old school tactics, they still work. It’s just that Google shifted to a more quality over quantity. So it’s better to get 20 of the strongest backlinks you can get versus 200 low grade backlinks.

    [00:11:25] It’s going to have more power. Your domain rank is going to go higher. You know, they’re passing link juice to your website. So think of like a If you get a, you’re a notable person. If you can get them to link to your site. It’s going to pass tremendous authority in the eyes of Google bot in being and other search engines.

    [00:11:42] And you will see rank boost because your competition, they don’t have that link. So it is it. SEO is all about reputation. All right. Excellent. Which leads us very nicely to Dennis Dennis, we’re going to call you the OJI. You’re you’re the original, your Yahoo search engine engineer. Um, If I could paraphrase what you’re saying and correct me if I’m wrong is supplement.

    [00:12:06] You’re very strongly, um, bullish. Let’s just say towards authority and making sure that you have other authoritative resources linking to you. Um, if you could comment about that further. Michelle. That’s a good point. Think of it this way. Okay. What most people are doing, what most businesses are doing is they’re trying to trick us.

    [00:12:32] And they’re using these different techniques. You hear people saying, use this kind of anchor text to have this kind of link. Velocity have blog posts that are 750 words a year. All the, and you know, some of this advice is advice is good and whatnot, but if you really want to win at the world of SEO, You have to look at it from the search engines, point of view.

    [00:12:53] You see what I mean? So, instead of trying to trick us, I would go to these conferences and for whatever reason, these SEO people, I’m sure to heaven knows they have this big attitude. They think that they’re really, really sharp and they’d come up and they’d say, well, I bet you didn’t know that I was able to do triangular linking, or I was able to do this particular way of cloaking that you guys couldn’t see.

    [00:13:17] And I’m looking at these guys saying you have no idea. I. I like to have unlimited God power when it comes to SEO, in terms of the amount of resources, we have to be able to see the things that people are doing. And we’re not telling everybody. What all of our IP addresses are. We’re not telling everybody every single technique that we’re looking for.

    [00:13:37] Right? So the way to win an SEO is to look at what are the signals that you can send the search engine that are so strong. That there’s no, that basically say that there’s no way you could be a spammer. So what are those well links from high powered media. Not some fake entrepreneur Forbes article that you can pay for press release distribution for a hundred dollars, but something actual, but it used to be 10 years ago, the number of unique linking domains was key.

    [00:14:09] And if you had over a hundred unique domains that were high authority, not some spam sites that have been around for only a couple of months each, but that’s, that’s a sign. Cause it’s something that is hard for a spammer to be able to do or having content that gets a lot of traffic. And a lot of sites are using Google analytics for their analytics.

    [00:14:28] And of course, Google is using that data. Google has something called rank brain, which a few people sort of know about. And that is when you let’s say make it. Under the first page temporarily for a particular keyword. Google will let you audition that the traffic and see how it’s, you know, whether the users like it or not.

    [00:14:48] If people click back from the search results, you know, click back to the search results and click down to the next result. That’s a penalty for you because it means the user didn’t have a good experience. So it’s not that you’re trying to do things for the search engine. You’re actually trying to do things for the user.

    [00:15:02] And for the old time SEO people in here, you guys know that. Folks like Matt Cutts would say things like, Oh yeah, I try to always do what’s right for the user. Try to create content that actually does deserve to rank for that particular keyword. Right. Look at the other guys and see, is your content objectively better?

    [00:15:18] If it’s not, then it’s not, it’s not going to last because rank brain is going to temporarily audition you at a spot 15 or whatever it doesn’t work. And then push you down to wherever your previous position is. So ultimately if you don’t take care of the users, Then you’re going to get pushed down and it is your Google is getting better and better at approximating what the user wants.

    [00:15:42] So don’t think of it as you’re trying to fool Google, think of it as Google is, is representing all these other users. And what we found with SEO that truly works is content that actually gets traffic and creates a natural signature. So friend of mine, Owns a company called etches and he has these laser engraving machines.

    [00:16:06] And one of the things that became popular was engraving iPods. Now, Apple, if you buy an iPod, they’ll engrave your initials for free or something like that during Christmas, but he did some really cool engraving and he started featuring these engravings. And put them on the site and put them on social.

    [00:16:22] Now, granted, this guy, Scott Zimmerman is a small business owner. He only does a few hundred thousand dollars a year, which is a small business owner, just, you know, him and his wife and this other girl who’s in the shop. He does not know a thing about SEO. He doesn’t know a thing about how do you rank or building websites or all the stuff that Tevin talks about.

    [00:16:41] He has no idea what any of those words are. Yeah. If you do a search for engraved iPods or any search related to that, you’re going to see he’s right there and like number two or number three for it. Uh, medium to high competition term is because he did anything with SEO. No, it’s because he put out some cool things.

    [00:17:03] Like there there’s some important people that wanted their, I, I pods in graded in, uh, engraved in a certain way, and that got some traffic, it got social distribution. He got a few links, not a lot. But a few links here and there in different forums. For example, he has a large community in the Chevy Impala or the, you know, the there’s an Impala committee where they just really, really like modifying their Impalas and getting together and comparing, and this kind of, you know, these enthusiasts, you understand there’s there are these enthusiast clubs and they started getting engravings.

    [00:17:35] They wanted custom things made and they started to share that. Now, if you look at it from the standpoint of the search engine, if you’re Google, you see that traffic, you see it cross between social, you see the anchor text that people are using if they generate links. And it’s not that we’re having these Impala enthusiasts try to craft, or what Tevin talked about when the lop over optimization penalty.

    [00:17:57] It’s not that we’re trying to avoid that. It’s that because it is natural traffic. It’s going to come off as natural, because if all these sites were using the blue anchor text of. Custom engraving shop and they all use that exact same term that would of course look fake. That looks like someone’s trying to trick the search engine.

    [00:18:16] Right. So I wouldn’t worry about those kinds of penalties because you’re not a crook. You’re not a thief. You’re not trying to cheat the search engine. If, so it goes back to building connections with the community, and then the piece about SEO that most people don’t understand. They could be a great business owner.

    [00:18:33] They could be providing a fantastic product or service is look at the domain authority of any of these particular sites and say, if they’re above 20 or 30, that’s pretty awesome. Right. I did a search on serial entrepreneur, which is what we talked about beginning of this room. And I see that of course, is there.

    [00:18:54] And some other friends like Gary Henderson, his site, digital Is there, I think a number three, number four. And why is that? There? Because he’s got an article on that because the page level authority of that page is reasonably high and the domain authority is reasonably high and it’s relevant to that particular topic.

    [00:19:15] So it all goes back to those same fundamentals. It’s the same stuff that we’ve been saying for the last 20 years and authority ultimately, is there a lot of people don’t understand this concept of authority and there’s different ways of defining it. But the way I define it from a search engine standpoint is who is saying it.

    [00:19:33] Where is it being said and what is being said? And we have a 30 point authority score. So 10 points on each of these three components of authority to see of all the content we have, which ones are the most powerful, which then we need to amplify and create more content like that. So if I’ve got, for example, I’ve got a number of articles on the Washington post.

    [00:19:58] Right, which is a high power magazine. And they’ve interviewed me multiple times on what is the future of Facebook and should the government regulate them and you know, how did the Russians use ads to try to manipulate the election? And so I saw that was giving me a lot of link power, and thus, I thought, okay, from an SEO standpoint, I want more link juice like that.

    [00:20:19] Right. I want high power sites to link to me. So then that reporter, I would send them some socks with their faces on them. I would text them once in a while and say, Hey, you know, this latest thing happened with Facebook. Are you guys interested in covering it or something like that? And since then, I think I’ve gotten five mentions in the Washington post.

    [00:20:37] Right. Would you consider that an SEO tactic or a smart PR tactic or smart relationship and you know, how, how would you guys look at that? And that’s actually, if you understand that true SEO, not all this spammy, let me use these tools. Try to trick you black magic witchcraft. If you understand that true SEO like actual powerful SEO is about building relationships with other people who talk about you.

    [00:21:03] And post that content on a high authority site. And there’s different ways that you could use  or majestic or Moz or SEMrush. SEMrush is my favorite as an all, all around tool. And Google used to have this thing. They had this thing called page rank, and there was this, they had this tool bar page rank, which they killed unfortunately 10 years ago.

    [00:21:23] And I think my site was a, was a seven, which is off the charts. Powerful, right. Basically a 70. Domain rank or domain authority. I collected all this authority because I was in the media. So often I spoke on stages and that gave me a ton of authority when Facebook launched their ads platform in 2007. And you, if you did a search on Google for Facebook advertising, I was ranked number two.

    [00:21:48] Number one was So I’m not exactly going to beat them on their own. You know, you’re not going to beat Facebook on your own unless you somehow can tunnel into their site and take it over something like that. But let me ask you this because, and then this will reframe this whole idea of what SEO is.

    [00:22:06] Did I do any SEO in parenthesis to rank on the term Facebook advertising, which is super competitive and. Arguably the answer is no, all I did was I shared my best knowledge. Other people thought that was amazing. So then I got on these podcasts and I got on TV and I got on radio and this kind of thing, and other bloggers would link to my stuff and people like social media examiner would reach out to me.

    [00:22:35] So then I’m happy to write articles on. I’ve written tons of articles for them about various sorts of things. And then other people link to those articles that I wrote because they were decent articles. And then those articles that link to the articles I wrote then linked to me. And so I accumulated a ton of link juice, but let me tell you, I never once thought about over-optimization penalties.

    [00:22:55] I never once thought about trying to do SEO to rank for that keyword. All I was doing was focusing on all right, for real estate agents, trying to do stuff with Facebook. What do they need to know? One, two, three, four, five for e-commerce. Where they’re trying to figure out how to do their ads. What kind of content do they need?

    [00:23:13] One, two, three, four, five. So I was literally just putting out this massive library of content and then letting the community share that and create such a strong signal that when the search engine sees that they see Holy crap, this dentist’s guys creating lots and lots of great content around Facebook ads and analytics and.

    [00:23:34] You know, whatever that he probably should deserve to rank. And it wasn’t that my site deserved to rank it was that the content that I put on other this is more of like a pro level thing. The content that I put on other people’s website, I prefer putting content on other people’s. Well, I’m sure Tevin would agree with this.

    [00:23:53] I would rather put content on. You know, digital or social media examiner, or I’d rather put my content on those sites because people are going to more likely see it. Those sites are already ranking better. Cause those, those guys have such high domain authority that even if we, if their content is not quite as good as a blog post on my site, they’re going to win because Google sees those sites as higher authority.

    [00:24:19] So they kind of get an extra bump if you know, If you know what I mean? So you can see that to truly rank, to have true SEO power, high authority is where it’s being said, who’s saying it. And what is it about? And when you do that, there’s no difference between SEO and high-level PR and community building and relationships and social media.

    [00:24:46] Like they’re all the same thing you guys follow me. I want you guys to understand that part, not this technical SEO witchcraft, right. You know, it’s really great. And I love that you’re introducing this, you know, shift and thinking that we should think of PR actually, and the ROI implications specifically linked to SEO.

    [00:25:10] I know a lot of companies struggle with that, so that’s really quite brilliant to wrap those together. Thank you, Dennis. Look at the power that we have in this room is shell, right? Look at Colin and his relationships with folks like George. For example, if you guys interview each other and turn them into blog posts, if you take social content, like what we have here in site clubhouse, which Google can’t see, or most of the Facebook posts or LinkedIn posts, which Google can’t see.

    [00:25:39] And we literally turn those into blog posts and we link between each other in a non spammy kind of way. That’s the easiest, low hanging fruit that the most white white hat means it’s okay. Black hat means you’re trying to cheat Google. It is the most white hat way of driving. Great search results. And thus, if you think about who your relationships are, Try to elevate these folks, not in a fake kind of way, but George Verdugo has done some amazing things for me.

    [00:26:07] He helped out a friend of mine who had a double DUI, had a no place to stay and housed him for a week. Brought him to court, took care of all these different things. And the reason, you know, part of the reason he did that, uh, he did nice things for me. You know, I did some nice things for him where he came out to our three-day workshop.

    [00:26:24] Right. And we helped him with social media and Facebook ads and websites and things like that. And I’m happy to honor him because of what he’s done for me and vice versa. Right? The reason I’m in this room is because George invited me. Right. So I honor that, and we’re doing SEO by honoring my relationships.

    [00:26:43] I’m doing SEO. I want you to reframe what SEO means in that way. It’s fantastic. I love the concept of playing it forward. So Kevin, let’s jump over to you. And then I’d like to, uh, have the audience here, jump up and ask questions as well as those on the stage. So Tevin your, your new school, um, authority here.

    [00:27:06] Like what is the most impactful changes that we can leverage? That have happened in SEL. Let’s just say over the last few years. So I’ve been doing SEO since 2007. So I mean, if that’s new school, I’ll take it. Michelle. You’re an old guy. I, I, I love what, uh, uh, Dennis, you were saying about domain authority, stacking.

    [00:27:31] Uh, one thing we did is we created high level infographics and then our link-building team actually, uh, reached out to news channels. So every news, uh, website has an email for their blog or for their, for their education portion of it. Yeah. Our website. And if you create a really high quality infographic, Wow themed around something that, you know, they’ll want to post a lot of the times you will get them to post it and link back to your website with a branded link.

    [00:27:59] And this is some of the most, you know, some of the highest authority websites out there. I mean, channel nine news, right? Orlando. Very high domain rank. So if I get them to post an infographic about global warming and they link back to my website, I can then use that to get more news websites, to link back to me.

    [00:28:17] And you’re building in a basically, essentially a wall of trust in the eyes of Google. So I love what Dennis said in regards to the evergreen backlinking you should never go out and buy your back links, uh, and think you’re not going to get caught. Uh, you will get caught. If you do it incorrectly, I can promise you that.

    [00:28:34] And you know, at the end of the day, that is black hat, it’s not evergreen focus on the PR side of things and you will get the results you’re looking for. Absolutely. Does that include social media? We hear a lot that social media links in no see social media, you can get unlimited Twitter links, Facebook links, Instagram links.

    [00:28:56] That’s not going to affect you. It’s when you start to manipulate anchor texts. To try to outrank competition. You know, you will, if you do it incorrectly, I mean, I’m talking about the majority of people you will get caught. Google’s constantly progressing their algorithm. I mean, just look at the December algorithm update, tons of websites got crushed during that out.

    [00:29:17] Uh, uh, algorithm update. Look at Panda penguin algorithm update. Um, you know, years back that crushed websites, right. That we’re doing this gray hat, black cat crap. So, you know, really focused on evergreen and, and, and you’ll be there essentially, regardless of the algorithm update, you’re always going to be on the first page.

    [00:29:36] Excellent. So let’s reset the room. Uh, first, everyone, just a reminder that we do this room. Every Friday at 2:00 PM Eastern time. Um, we’re trying to do a format that’s, you know, educational and very informative. So, um, we have two formative experts here, Dennis, uh, Yahoo search engine engineer, expert.

    [00:30:02] Extraordinary. Kevin is our new school person. Who’s an expert on the grounds, figuring out and knowing what works. So let’s like put it to the audience and everyone remembered to follow our speakers and those others in the room so that we can actually help each other rise up in this clubhouse as CEO, so to speak algorithm.

    [00:30:27] So does anyone have a question? I see one question from a J Martin.

    [00:30:33]Hey, we just deed Aja or anyone to state that they agree to the recording. Thank you. How’s the cat. We love cats here. So go ahead. Ha sure. Um, just wanted to see if you all were speaking at all about, um, the Google practice of, uh, your, I can’t remember the exact term of it now, but when you’re. Your page is selected as the one that answers a specific question, except at the top before the rankings and the snippet, Google continuing the snippets and yeah, absolutely.

    [00:31:12] You just have to employ and implement schema. If you implement schema on your website, you have a better chance of getting into the snippet section. If you don’t implement schema on your website, you know, you’re going to have to have a really high rank website. And, uh, typically there. There has to not already be a snippet website there.

    [00:31:32] Otherwise, if you want to take that snippet from them, you better have a schema implement it on your site and have higher quality backlinks. Are there decent, easy tools to create schema? No, it, when we first started, there were not, you can actually go to the actual schema website.

    [00:31:49]Oh, is it Yup. Okay,

    [00:31:55]appreciate it, man. I had a question. Um, this is Jeffrey up at the top for either Dennis and Tevin and both of you. Thank you so much for sharing such amazing knowledge. I’ve been making notes and getting lots of tips. And I look forward to a Rachel’s recap next week when she tells us all the things we learned, um, we’re here on a voice platform.

    [00:32:17] We’re talking to each other. What impact, if any, does voice. Have in SEO and what are particular SEO tips when you’re sharing voice, like we’re recording this podcast, et cetera. Um, how, how does this voice impact SEO?

    [00:32:33]Yeah. So I’ll go ahead and start it off. So voice is important. You’re going to want to get your website loaded into a lot of the voice. Um, features out there like Siri, uh, Amazon Alexa, and there’s ways to go about doing this. Um, so definitely, definitely, definitely very important. And moving forward into the future, I mean, you want to have your website into these tools who knows where AI is headed.

    [00:32:58] That’s the best case I’ve actually heard Kevin for enabling Alexa. Thank you for that. Yeah, absolutely. All right. We have Marson. Marsan has a question

    [00:33:13]Marson you’re on mute.

    [00:33:15]Yeah. Also Michelle Saeed, uh, probably had a question too here in the left hand corner.

    [00:33:20]know, well, either of them are, um, getting ready to come on stage to ask their question. I will say that, you know, I’ve done video and voice recordings for the past 10 years or so. And I have consistently provided transcriptions of the voice recordings underneath the voice recording. For SEO purposes primarily.

    [00:33:44] Um, but also for user purposes. So I find that if people don’t have the time to listen to a recording or they don’t want to listen on, you know, one and a half speed to try and get through it faster, they can scan the text a lot faster. And then people’s names specific events. Become searchable by your own site search engine, as well as, uh, Google and Bing and others.

    [00:34:07] So that your results rise to the top of the organic listings faster. Yeah. Thank you, Michael. Can you just state you’re okay with being recorded? Yeah, you bet. And, um, Michael, I think that’s a very good point to make. I, I noticed on these very high performing affiliate type videos, I always have the option for transcripts.

    [00:34:34] So really good piece of advice. Cause we do have a lot of folks here that use voice as their primary. Medium. Thank you. You bet. And one additional tip that I just remembered is usually when I. Take the recording. I like to do my recordings as videos, then I. Upload them to YouTube. YouTube will create the transcription automatically, but then I will go in and update the transcription because they’ll get names and, um, you know, uh, li uh, lingo in your industry wrong.

    [00:35:05] And so I’ll correct. All of that. Usually I’ll just. Upload my entire transcript. If it’s a, um, if I’ve done it for the webpage and then have it sync up on YouTube, that way I know when people go to YouTube to search, which is the number two search engine in the world, they can find that information faster and better as well.

    [00:35:25] Excellent. I say we have SIADH SEO guy in the audience, another SEO expert. Is there anything you want to add to the conversation and tell us if it’s okay if we record you, please? Yes, it’s totally okay, Michelle, I just wanted to add one more thing. Like, uh, Tavis shared somewhere, some really good stuff. So I wanted to talk about the why service.

    [00:35:52] So, like we have been working on a wide search quite quite a while. And, uh, one thing I would like to add to the keyword research or the white search method is that just try to like, just look at it when you put, when you’re searching for something on Google and you’re actually typing it, it’s going to be pretty much different than when you are saying it in an Alexa or a C or something like that.

    [00:36:15] For example, you might type pet your diet. For athletes or athletes, patio died in Google. But when you are just saying it, it might be some more natural language. Like for example, you would say like history. So what is the, uh, uh, what are the paleo diets? Ideal for athletes, uh, uh, in summer, something like that.

    [00:36:34] So, so like it’s it’s so the keyword keyword structure and the length is going to be different. I would probably work more on those long tail keywords. That’s one thing. And then you can actually have a page on your website and FAQ page specifically for why search and hard. How is that going to be different than my other content pieces or other FAQ pages that I would, I would have.

    [00:36:58] A shorter version answers for those natural language keywords. So when I’m searching something, when I was searching something I’m expecting more like a short answer, maybe a paragraph or two paragraph, I won’t probably look for. Maybe a thousand or 2000 words or maybe 5,000 word guide. So these are, these are the two things I would quickly like to add here.

    [00:37:21] And so, and I would end with a question for the panel terrorists and Dennis, and all of these experts that so like VR kind of convinced all us as you as any market that we are kind of knock-on risks that. Link building is a huge factor, but we, we obviously don’t want to do a link building just for the sake of lingual.

    [00:37:41] Instead, we just want to, you probably need to have those high cost high quality, high tardy, some, some links from highly relevant top publication. So let’s, let’s talk a bit about digital PR. So what kind of digital PR strategies are working for you? And I would be happy to chime in as the conversation goes on.

    [00:38:02] Thank you for that. Okay. So are there any more questions in the audience? I have one, um, I am a big proponent of telling my fellow entrepreneurs not to delegate SEO. Now, what do I mean by that? I actually mean that. I actually believe that everyone who runs a business understands their business and they need to work with an expert and they need to work with technical people and they need to get advice from Tevin and Dennis, I absolutely agree with that, but I feel like too many entrepreneurs outsource that or they, they, they delegate it thinking it’s a technical thing, but the fact of the matter is there are so many.

    [00:38:54] Things that an entrepreneur can do to help make SEO successful. And the most basic of all. And I really would like to Dennis and, and Kevin’s feedback on this is even the title tags. What is the space that you want to own? That’s not a technical requirement. That’s really an entrepreneur deciding, okay. I live in Fort Lauderdale and I want to sell flowers.

    [00:39:18] So therefore, I’m going to set the title tag guys. Flowers in Fort Lauderdale delivered free or something like that. And I actually think that that’s a big part of every entrepreneur’s journey to success. It is not a technical thing. Although you need technical people to help you implement it. I want your thoughts on that, Dennis and Kevin.

    [00:39:42] Oh man. Colin. I would take what you said and put it in 72 point bold font. I would broadcast that everywhere. That is so, so smart. Cause SEO, if you boil down what actually happens to rank in search engines requires goals, continent targeting, like you said, the strategy of what is it you want to rank on?

    [00:40:05] What relationships do you have and knowledge do you have to justify you ranking on that in whatever format could be voice search or YouTube, which is a great way. I consider that part of SEO. And so the relationships and the knowledge that you have are something that other people who might be really good technically at SEO.

    [00:40:23] Can’t help you with, they can build your website and make it run faster. They can build it applications and do that kind of stuff. But the actual heart of what drives search engine results is your relationships and your knowledge, which you cannot outsource any more than, you know, if you’re a husband to a beautiful wife, you can’t outsource being a husband.

    [00:40:43] You can’t outsource your weight loss program and have someone else work out for you. Right. You can have a trainer. You have someone like Tevin or me advise you, but you’ve got to, there’s no shortcut to this. And what Colin said is one of the smartest things I’ve heard in SEO in a long time. And I’d also frame it this way.

    [00:41:01] SEO is not an activity. That by the way, when I say this, it pisses off the people that do SEO for a living SEO is not something that you do. Just like an MBA. Isn’t you’re not you, aren’t an MBA. You, you got an MBA because you went to school and that was your degree, right? But that’s not who you are.

    [00:41:18] Search engine optimization is the result, not the activity. The activity is networking or writing articles. Like this room here is going to be turned into an article. I imagine of some sort, right? The activity is creating content, building relationships, taking care of your customers. The results is SEO.

    [00:41:37] You see what I mean?

    [00:41:39]Can I add Michelle, can I quickly, uh, piggyback on when Colin and Danny said, I totally agreed with that. In fact, I see more space in the, in the SEO industry. I see more, more space for the SU advisors at different companies and start off just all sourcing as yours, which by the way I also do. But, but, but that’s what I see going, but I like, like, it, it depends on.

    [00:42:05] It depends a lot on the company too. Like, let’s talk about enterprise, right. Enterprise is having like neutrally Portland and Portland and even millions of pages. Right. And have it just, just, just, just forget about the rest of the website. Just talk, just talk about the page titles. So that’s the skill, uh, beyond that there’s, in my opinion, uh, beyond the scale of an entrepreneur or at least.

    [00:42:29] Even one or two person that that’s probably required a whole thing. And also I have been recently working for a few of your enterprise and I, so that’s exactly what I wanted to do. So I said, instead of like, just bring it all in working and this still as your website is all just physically fixing it. We are just, so one thing they can do is just having, having an SEO SOP for that.

    [00:42:53] Enterprise which taken fall. So, and what I mean by that is having a policy as standard operating procedure for giving all battling internal linking and that kind of stuff. Great advice. Okay. So we are about 12 minutes from finish our, is there anyone in the audience with the question.

    [00:43:15]All right. Let’s restate and reset the room a bit. Um, we have experts, SEO experts in the room, Dennis Yu, who is a Yahoo search engine engineer, expert and Tevin Jackson. Uh, new, new, all newer on the scene. Expert making things happen on a day-to-day basis. So three things I’m hearing themes of is quality over quantity.

    [00:43:46] Yeah. Quality over quantity and a penguin. You always want to have quality backlinks, evergreen backlinks, via organic routes, and they could be outreach. It’s just, you’re going to provide them with content that is it’s such high quality that they’re going to want to post it. Right. That’s what you want to go after.

    [00:44:05] And backlinks compounds. So if you go out and get 20 news back links or 20 association backlinks, they posted your notable infographic or your notable blog posts. You can then use that to go out and get other high quality. Uh, blogs to post about you. Uh, and you know, each website has a different webmaster.

    [00:44:23] You’re not paying for the links. They love the content you’re providing value to their site. And you’re building a orb of influence. And the link juice that is being passed to your site is indisputable. Those websites rank. They have lots of traffic coming to their sites. So you’re going to get some traffic from their site.

    [00:44:40] And like Dennis mentioned take, if it’s not a really high authority website, run some paid ads for that post. Yes, some more traffic. Google loves that. I love that I’m going to do that myself. Um, it, one of the companies I work with Meow intense. We do a lot of blogs. We’re always at the top up Shopify blog posts, like always in the top 10%.

    [00:45:03] And I, you know, it had not occurred to me to run some search ads into that. So I love that idea. I’m going to actually try that good practical tip and that can be on Facebook and LinkedIn. Inbound lead sources were really good. Love the idea. Okay. And Dennis, um, you know, we’re hearing from you, you know, leverage your meaningful conversations off your site and on your site via blog posts, transcriptions, et cetera.

    [00:45:36] Did we understand you correctly? Well, just make it even simpler. All of these websites. Have a certain amount of juice, if you will. Right. And whatever tool you use, SEMrush, majestic H refs MAs. They calculate. And approximation of how much juice is being passed from these different links. So all else equal more links is more juice, but to Kevin’s point higher quality links, pass more juice.

    [00:46:06] I’d rather have a few really high quality links than lots and lots of spammy links that aren’t really on topic that comes from questionable sites. That have a Roundup of random sorts of things like directories. And when I think about the real power of SEO, I’d go back to what Colin had just said a couple of minutes ago, which is when you’re clear on your strategy and your networking or knowledge you make, when you create that this kind of content like recording this room and taking some of these top tips and turning them to articles, taking your videos and transcribing them and turning it into blog posts.

    [00:46:38] I’ll take my Facebook posts. And turn them into blog posts to put on my site, which generates another 30 blog posts per month. That’s legit. That’s not, that’s not duplicate content, but it’s something that’s being seen by Google. I generated an extra 15,000 visits to my own personal site last month, just from doing this one piece of repurposing content or another thing, I’ll offer this to our audience here.

    [00:47:04] Anyone who has a step by step process of where they’ve achieved the result. And wants to share that on my blog, as it relates to digital marketing, I’m happy to share that for them and give them a Dr. 63 link. So for anyone who does SEO, you know what that’s worth, right? Wow. I would challenge Colin or George or Tevin to spill the beans on something that has worked for them.

    [00:47:28] That it’s not just some auto-generated, you know, 10 ways on how to be a successful entrepreneur, vague nonsense, but something very specific where. We’re showing behind the scenes screenshots of our data or pictures of us doing particular things, something that’s so helpful that it deserves to rank on that particular niche.

    [00:47:48] And then as that niche fits into digital marketing, I would be happy to share that because a, it gives my audience great content. Because I always want to be a collector of great digital marketing content and that’s just the power of it, clubhouse. I mean, I’m getting, I’m getting dyes with Dr. 63 websites wanting to link out to us.

    [00:48:07] It’s, it’s very easy for my American based content development team to get, you know, some notable, you know, um, you know, information for him to post based on our backend for our shoulder view. So, absolutely. I appreciate that though. So Tevin for other people that don’t, that don’t know what that means.

    [00:48:23] What is the permanent high-quality in text link from a D R 63 site worth monetarily? Or are we, yeah. Yeah, just, just as just roughly estimate what you believe that’s worth, not a paid link, let legit one and a, and a whole blog post that’s that’s based on whatever topic it is that you want. That’s well done.

    [00:48:46] That is only one or two links away from the homepage. Well, I could use that to rank for keywords that will make millions a year. So I’d say it’s priceless. I’d say it’s worth millions. Yeah. And all it takes is one link. Although obviously you want to have more and we’ve done this time and time again, website like yourself is I’ll do tiered linking right.

    [00:49:06] Domain authorities. So instead of sending more backlinks to my site, I’ll send back links to your posts. So I can rank that article in Google for. That’s what pros do. This is great. Yeah, this is I’m learning so much myself, but I just want to introduce someone who just came on the stage. Michael Gilmore is out of Australia.

    [00:49:31] He is one of the world’s top domain monetization companies. He specializes literally. And, uh, rev shares a monetization, Michael, like, you know, I’m just pulling you up here. Unexpectedly is what is it? Dr.  site, uh, link that they’re, you know, posing like, w w how does that make you feel in your business? Yeah, that’s, that’s a really interesting question.

    [00:49:59] Um, because, uh, we, we deal with SEI. Um, we really don’t because all of our traffic comes from domain name. So, um, uh, it with domain names, you’re looking at for natural type in traffic and things like that, and, um, possibly linking and everything. And then when you monetize that traffic, so. What we don’t do is worry about SEO because any domains that are pack and not actually in Google anyway.

    [00:50:30] So a heavier, a page rank of that is like meaningless in terms of, um, the, for me is it’s, it’s incredibly valuable for other people. For pack logic. Usually question was once again as well, is that, uh, we, we typically know the sort of clients we want to do, be dealing with. We know who they are. So, um, we’re not after volumes of clients we’re after specific clients.

    [00:50:55] Which is a different strategy again. Yeah. So it’s, um, uh, in terms of, uh, a regular business, as Steven said, it’s worth a huge amount of money, um, having, having a link like that. But for us, it’s, we’re very different to be a very different scenario in. All right. Excellent. To make these practical. I know we’re almost out of time in this room and we could talk generically and theoretically about SEO, but I want everyone to get real benefit here.

    [00:51:27] Think about someone, you know, that has expertise that you can get on a five minute zoom call. Which only takes you five minutes, you interview them or 10 minutes, right? Run that through the script or or the YouTube API. Turn that thing into a blog post, put it on your site or their site. And you’ve already done something fantastic to SEO on whatever keywords you want to rank on.

    [00:51:50] I see down in the audience, my buddy, Robert Craven, who is down there like seven or eight rows, he’s got a black and white. Oh, there he is. And he I’ll give you an example. So he runs grow your digital agency. He spoken on these all, all these other stages. He knows a lot. I’ve interviewed him. He’s interviewed me.

    [00:52:06] We turn these things into blog posts, and that helps us rank on niche keywords, not just on growing your digital agency, but how do you hire staff and how do you train up a VA? And how do you set up PPC campaigns and how do you do this and how do you do that? That’s how we’re doing. SEO is literally maximizing our relationships, pulling knowledge out of their brains, right?

    [00:52:28] That guy, Robert knows a lot about digital agencies. So I’m pulling knowledge out of his brain featuring it. And then I get the benefit of showing that to my community and he gets the benefit of a nice link from me. You see how that works? Amazing. Very reciprocal. Okay. We only have a few minutes, but I’d like to give Edna Edna.

    [00:52:48] If you have a few parting thoughts on our conversation, we’d love to hear them. Hi, Michelle. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Colin for the invite. Great topic. And I know so many people ask the question, you know, SEO really does make a difference in how you do. It makes a difference whether you’re going to be ranking with your website and getting that traffic.

    [00:53:12] But one of the biggest questions that follows that is. Cost, right. Like the cost of doing SEO and then the time that it takes for you to start seeing those results. And so I think it, one of the, one of the key things would be maybe to give a, an overview of what that looks like, so that people have a realistic expectation and, um, see if that can, can help some folks that have those questions.

    [00:53:43] Well, what’s the cost of building relationships. What’s the cost of content marketing. What’s the cost of interviewing other people and transcribing those videos. That’s the way I’d look at it. What are the activities that you would need to do to share your knowledge? It’s, there’s no cost of SEO, right?

    [00:53:57] Because SEO is ranking that that’s the result. You see what I mean? So break it down into the activities, brother. It’s a sliding scale. It could be six figures a month. It could be thousands thousand a month. So you’re saying that if you take the activities that you’re currently doing on across your social media platforms and turn those into blogs and then put them on your site, then the cost of doing SEO is really your time and energy and effort put into the work that you’re already trying to do anyway.

    [00:54:32] So it would be organic in a sense. Hey man, 100%. So you’re going to be creating content anyway, you’re going to be sharing it. You’re building relationships. You’re flying out to other cities to have dinner with important people that is, I guess, your SEO costs, but that’s what you would do as a business owner.

    [00:54:48] Right? George Verdugo. And I have hung out in cities all over the place. Is that SEO costs not really, but I’m building relationships. Cause I liked the guy.

    [00:54:57]And some great practical advice. I know I’ve picked up some, I think, amazing points that I’m going to immediately act on. As you’ve said, Dennis and Tevin, um, you know, great practical advice. One thing I think of sometimes everyone it’s like the easiest job, but yet it’s the hardest. It does take a commitment from, um, what we found on some of our websites.

    [00:55:23] But it’s well worth it as Dennis and Tevin have explained. So without further ado, Um, let’s talk about next week. So again, thank you for everyone who’s attended. We’re immensely grateful that you’re taking your valuable time to follow us. We’re here every Friday at 2:00 PM Eastern time and next week, our topic is going to be clubhouse.

    [00:55:50] What is working for you? And what is not working for you. So it’s going to be a very open forum. So everyone who is interested in speaking as welcome, just be prepared to talk about what’s working and what’s not so that we can all learn and grow together. So, again, thank you so much for your time. Um, we’ll be publishing our blog as, as folks have recommended George and Kevin here, and look forward to seeing you next week.

    [00:56:19] You can find out more about the topics and the transcripts and blog by going to S Have a wonderful weekend. Thank you so much. Thanks, bye bye. 

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