How to Say No to Loved Ones

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[00:00:07] Thank you very much for coming on. Because you’re in for a real treat today, as we’re going to be taking a look at the topic of how to say no to loved ones, how is it an entrepreneur?

[00:00:19] You can constantly say no, and what’s the way you can say no to loved ones. And what’s some stories about like, how have you said no to loved ones? Because you know, the business really is demanding your time or something like that. And it’s one of those really big challenges. I think that entrepreneurs face, um, they, they really face a big challenge of how do you balance that life of an entrepreneur and your business and your vision and with your loved ones and like, how do you do that?

[00:00:52] And this is a thing that you’ll never get in a business. Yeah, they won’t talk about these sort of things. In business schools, they talk about profit and loss of balance sheets, cash flows, assets, liabilities, expenses, and God forbid revenue, but they not going to be talking about what does it mean to be the person of an entrepreneur?

[00:01:11] And that’s what the complete entrepreneurs, all of that. So welcome here. And it’s great to see the room filling up right now. And, um, uh, you know, you’re here listening to the complete entrepreneur was saying how to say no to loved ones. And the complete entrepreneur is all about looking at the business aspects of what it means to be an entrepreneur and the, the life aspects of an entrepreneur.

[00:01:34] And with this topic, as it unfolds today, if you say, you know what, I’ve got some things to share on this. I’d love to be able to put my hand, just put your hand up, put your hand up, and we’d love to invite you to the stage and to hear your views on this. You say, uh, one thing I should say is that. Anyone who comes to the stage because we’re actually making these in the podcasts on startup.club that we are recording them.

[00:02:00] So you’re giving us your permission to record them. So, uh, so we can put them up on, start up.club, but just before we get started into the topic of what it is, how to say no to loved ones, love to hear from, uh, yourself, Michelle or Jeff, uh, what’s going on what’s startup.club. Like hear some really exciting things are happening.

[00:02:21] Well, it’s, it’s been phenomenal. We’ve had some amazing guests and we have, you know, a number of these recurring shows that are really starting to build an audience. But one thing of note that we want to bring to everyone’s attention is that we will have Mr. Wonderful of shark tank here on start-up club, October 28th at 2:00 PM Eastern.

[00:02:43] So he’s going to do a phenomenal event. Um, he was on a few weeks ago. Where several people came up to the stage and just, you know, just kind of, um, socialize their business idea and God, a little bit of advice got a first take from Mr. Wonderful. But in this next session, what his going to do is there, I think about four or five people that he picked, it’s actually women in honor, a breast cancer awareness month.

[00:03:15] They’re going to come and they’re going to practice their pitch with Mr. Wonderful. So we’re super excited to be a part of that and really looking forward to, um, you know, hearing what he says, like, uh, you know, raising money and practicing your pitch. It’s it really is an invaluable experience, especially to be able to do it and get advice directly from Mr.

[00:03:38] Wonderful. So that’s what we have coming up. We also have a new website. That we encourage you to check out it startup.club. You can join our email list so you can get notifications for special events. We also have launched a new calendar of our recurring sessions, as well as tons and tons of content. Um, for all the shows that we’ve been recording, the recordings are up there as well as blog posts and transcripts.

[00:04:10] So we, you know, we’re really trying to build it out. If you have any suggestions, please let us know if you have any questions or you want to speak on start-up club. Please feel free to email us@helloatstartup.club. Thank you. Well, fantastic. Thank you for that, Michelle, like some incredible things happiest start up a club.

[00:04:32] I must admit, like in this day and age, it’s just phenomenal, the resources available now for, um, entrepreneurs. And the thing I love about clubhouse is the willingness of seasoned entrepreneurs to help others that may not be as seasoned as such. And it’s just fabulous like that. And to be able to see, see people helping other people up, um, and teaching and stuff like that in the, in the environment of club has it’s this great.

[00:05:05] So, um, fantastic. All those great, wonderful things happen. Start up that club. But today we’re taking a look at the topic on the complete entrepreneurial, how to say no to loved ones. And one of the most difficult challenges an entrepreneur faces is saying no to someone they love because their businesses.

[00:05:25] And it happens to all of us. Uh, it’ll happen time and time again. And is it right to do that? Is it right? Should you be saying no, or it shouldn’t be, it shouldn’t that your family or your loved one or something like that? I think the priority in your life and you have to go along and do this for you. You need to respond to them in a positive sense, or should you be able to say no?

[00:05:50] Well then how do you say no? Are you burning your relationships and aren’t they why you’re working so hard? Yeah. It’s um, I think there’s a good analogy of this. And it’s like having a, if I was to kick things off for this discussion and just, if you were in the audience, you’re thinking my goodness, what a topic this is.

[00:06:14] And I got to share about something here, that from my own life, as an entrepreneur, the please stick your hand up. We’d love to invite you to the stage and to hear from you. That’d be tremendous, but I’ll kick things off. And that is as good analogy of the trust account. And the trust account is every time you’re with someone or you’re contributing to someone or, or whatever, to a loved one, you’re depositing into their trust account.

[00:06:42] And every time you, um, you’re saying no, or you’re distancing yourself because say you’re a business of grabbing you. You withdrawing from your trust account. The challenge comes when you go into overdrive. And when relationships go to overdraft, then, then you’re really going to say, look at like, what’s going on here.

[00:07:07] Um, cause let me tell you that person you’re an overdraft with who just doesn’t understand what it means to be an entrepreneur. They just don’t understand the pressures I’m under all that sort of stuff. Do it. The one number one, why you working so hard and they’re the one who’s actually going to be supporting you when the chips fall, fall down, when you really hit one of those dark places as an entrepreneur.

[00:07:33] So before you go along and say that they just don’t understand, they, this, they that remember every time you point to someone, there’s four fingers pointing back at you. And look at how have you deposited in their trust account? There’s a great book. Um, uh, I think it was by a guy called Gary Chapman. It’s called the five love languages, and really gave me an insight into many of my, my, my relationship with my loved one family and so forth.

[00:08:03] And the five love languages. I remember some of them off the top, my kid is spending time. You know, basically the essence of the book was we could think we’re actually deposited into their trust account with someone, but we’re acting not because we’re not talking to the live language. They now have to receive.

[00:08:22] And because we’re not talking, the love language is they’re just positing dollars. We’re depositing pennies. And we think we’re putting the dollars. It’s like, I spent so much time with you the other day. Cause that’s a love language is spending time, but really what your significant other’s love language is maybe again, Maybe it’s a bunch of flowers to show you care.

[00:08:47] Maybe it’s that foot massage of touch, a really just touching or maybe it’s they just need to hear, hear you, give them a word of affirmation, just say, Hey, you’re doing a good job and it’s not all about you. The entrepreneur really interesting stuff. And so this taught me a lot about in the case of my wife, of what were her love languages.

[00:09:15] And when I did spend time with her, I made sure I was communicating in the language that she began to understand. Let’s say one of the most amazing journeys in life as an entrepreneur is learning about yourself, but right alongside that is learning about your loved one. And it’s an amazing, amazing journey we go on, but let me talk about and share with you another story before we kick things off.

[00:09:49] And you’re few the audience stage say, Hey, look at that story, that what you shared there, that just really resonated with me. Please stick your hand up. We’d love to hear from you and your thoughts on it. So one of the reasons why we as moderators, we do these sessions is to hear from others to hear from you and your thoughts on a topic like this.

[00:10:10] But, uh, I remember I was, uh, had had a business with no fault of my own dare I say. Um, ended up being thrust into a very difficult time and, um, And I remember going to my kids at the time. And, uh, uh, we didn’t, we ended up not having a crack. We, we literally, we had, we had nothing. Um, we went from here to zero overnight and it was like, it was really, really tough.

[00:10:44] And I went to my kids and I had to say to them, are you in there swimming lessons? You’re getting, yeah, they’re not going to happen anymore. And just so happened at the time, my son was really good at swimming and he was getting into the squads and he probably could have gone on to really great things. I had to say, no, we just didn’t have any money in the camp.

[00:11:05] There was no money to pay for them. We didn’t have anything. Um, and it was a. It’s a tough conversation have, um, he would have been about, I think it was about eight years old at the time. And, uh, particularly with him less. So my daughters, but with him to sit cause they were younger and they say, oh, whatever, it goes, whatever it goes.

[00:11:30] Yeah. But he was beginning to understand that age and I had to sit down with them and say that and really open up and show some vulnerability that dad, the Superman sometimes gets hit by kryptonite. And I need to show how he’s feeling and, and how much he meant to me in that process though. Um, and that this is a very difficult decision, would love to be able to do that.

[00:12:01] Um, I’d love to be able to him to continue his swimming lessons with his coach and all that sort of stuff, but we just couldn’t. We couldn’t do it. And it was a, it was a tough time to say no to him. Um, and at the same time, it was a really good time because it became even more a bonding with my eight year old son.

[00:12:23] Um, and it was a, an incredible experience. And that was in the middle of a very traumatic time. Uh, for me as a person, um, some of you as entrepreneurs may be able to relate to this where I found myself having this mental picture of each day, I would go to the, go to the office and I would have this mental picture of me being in a.

[00:12:48] And as the elevator went up to the third floor and the office building we’re in, I’d be pulling the lid of the tank down because I knew I was about to be a, by so many impossible circumstances and I was battling battling onwards. And it was less about firing the gun. It was more about thank goodness as a little bit of armor around me.

[00:13:09] And that was a big challenge, a really big challenge. So Michelle or Jeff, if you’ve ever been through situations like this, where you say no. And what have you actually done with saying, no, I can’t. Have you communicated it? Or what was it like for you and your feelings, your emotions, as you went through having to say no.

[00:13:30] When you don’t want to say no. What’s that been like for you,

[00:13:38] Michelle? One of the challenges, Michael is. You know, almost always, especially when it comes to situations with the family, almost always after you say no, like maybe you’re going to miss, you know, your kid’s ball game or a birthday party or some other things, because you think there’s no way you can get out of this business obligation.

[00:14:02] Number one, you know, immediately after you do it, you know, you’re going to feel some level of regret probably. And number two, when you’re at the, doing the thing that you thought you had to miss your family event for, oftentimes you realize when you’re there that, you know, did I really have to be here?

[00:14:21] Was, is this meeting, is this business dinner? Is this really as important as I thought it was? And, and it’s hard at the time. I think, you know, one of them. Side benefits of, of the pandemic we’ve all been living through is I think because we haven’t been able to go to events and go do things. And haven’t really been in that position to say no to our family, because we’re all stuck together, relatively speaking.

[00:14:46] Um, I think we’ve had a chance to maybe rethink and re assess the importance of, of those types of things that you would in the past have said no to your family for in favor of a business thing. So, you know, the truth of the matter is nothing is ever as important as you think it is, you know, and nothing is ever as critical.

[00:15:09] And, and if you miss a business thing in favor of your family, you know, the world’s not going to come crashing down. Your business is not going to fall apart. We trick ourselves into thinking that those things will happen, but the reality is they rarely do and likely won’t and, and the long-term benefits.

[00:15:29] Saying yes. Instead of saying no, are going to far out weight, the risks of, of, of, um, missing that business dinner. I think that’s why I look at it now. I certainly didn’t look at it that way when I was in the thick of it. Right. I said no to my family way too many times, way too many times. Yeah. Look, it’s, it’s, it’s really interesting.

[00:15:53] Um, conundrum. I remember when, um, uh, what, you’re, what you’re sharing, the sort of Jeff and, um, uh, yeah, we think as entrepreneurs that it’s, everything is so important and it’s critical. It is absolutely critical from a business. Um, and really, like you said, to be quite blunt with you, if you miss that particular business meeting or you had to reshape it, it’s not going to be a disaster.

[00:16:23] It’s very few things are going to be a disaster. If you’re going from literally running a business from crisis to crisis, then you really need to take a look at what you’re actually doing, because you can’t actually sustain that. It’s unsustainable, it’s unsustainable. From a business perspective, it’s unsustainable for an emotional perspective and a mental perspective, yours end up making some really bad decisions, uh, for your business.

[00:16:48] If you’re going from crisis to crisis. Let me share another story with, um, it’s Thomas, my daughter. It was her 16th birthday, my youngest daughter. And, uh, she was obviously really looking forward to it. Um, I wish I could say she was sweet 16, never been kissed, but she’d been going out with a guy already for a couple of years and still is going out with Scott, but, um, her birthday was on.

[00:17:17] Exactly the same time as a major industry event in the United States. Exactly the same time. And, uh, she looked at me and she said, are you going to be at my birthday? And, uh, I said to her, you know, this event is absolutely really critical to the, to the business. And she said, yeah, I know I could just watch it.

[00:17:46] And I said to her then, but you’re more important. You’re more important. And I didn’t go to the conference. You wouldn’t believe the impact that had on her and our relationship that she knew she was more important than some conference on the other side of the world. But on the flip side of the. Um, there are rumor went around the industry at that stage that, um, my, I had gone out of business and that’s why I wasn’t there cause I’d been to every single conference around the world.

[00:18:19] Um, but suddenly I wasn’t there this one. And to the extent I accept to write a blog post on why I wasn’t at the conference. That was my daughter is six days birthday and I’m looking forward to the date of the next conference and hopefully a quilt. And I quilt all those rumors and so forth like that. Um, that was quite a number of years ago now.

[00:18:41] So Hey, we managed to survive that’s for sure. But yeah, it’s. Making those decisions. Can we really tough? And I want to divide up into two points, two paths. When you’re burning cash as an entrepreneur, it’s actually much more difficult to make the decisions, um, for loved ones. Versus if you know, you’ve got a hundred thousand dollars coming your bank account every single month.

[00:19:06] Let me tell you, it’s really easy to say no to meetings. It’s really easy to say no to conference much easier compared to is if you’re thinking, how are we going to pay rent this week? It’s a really different scenario. Yeah. So, Michelle, do you have any thoughts on this, on what does it actually mean to be a loved one, have loved ones and being an entrepreneur and that whole messy mix called life.

[00:19:39] He, that this is a hard one for me because. Uh, I let my work consume me. I mean, that’s just the honest truth about myself personally. So how do I survive that? How does my husband survive? That that’s a great question. I mean, for me, it has to be about a lot of very open, honest communication. Um, yeah, I I’d probably go to a lot of meetings that I don’t need to be at, but I don’t want to miss.

[00:20:09] So I think the challenge that I have faced and that, you know, I’m always trying to overcome is do I need to, like Jeff was saying, do I need to be at every meeting? And really, you know, in a way, if we’re being a really good, um, entrepreneur or boss or employee, we really do need to find ways to bring other people, you know, into the equation because that is going to make us scale.

[00:20:39] So I like to take it probably from a little bit different angle. I like to look at it from, you know, is it really best for the company? You know, for us entrepreneurs, usually it’s a few people in a company that are just really like driving things and working like crazy. It’s not always the best thing for the company, and I’m not even talking about families right now, but we really need to think about like, to grow to the next level and to be in it for the long haul.

[00:21:13] How do we manage that? And I think that does transcend into other parts of our life where we could be our better self, right. If we’re not just like burning the candle on both ends. So I kind of like to look at it from that angle. Um, you know, in my family, we are not. You know, to say, oh no, we don’t want you to, you know, go on that business trip that you think you need to go on.

[00:21:43] We, we try to like trust each other’s judgment. But on the other hand, you know, it is, it can be a very big gesture. That’s very impactful, like what you were talking about with your daughter and Michael. Um, but again, it’s not always easy, but you know, life isn’t easy. I think, you know, just be really honest with your family about why you’re doing it and why you think it’s important.

[00:22:08] And I also think it’s okay if you know, for you, Michael, obviously you’re traveling around the world because you’re in Australia and you’re going to the U S or you’re going to Japan or wherever that might be, you know, sometimes it’s appropriate to even bring your family with you. They might not be spending a lot of time with you at those, you know, shows or those meetings, I think at some good opportunity to see for them to see.

[00:22:33] What really goes into it, what really goes into, you know, what it takes to support their lifestyle, if, if you’re the breadwinner and also, um, you know, they get to do something a little bit different that they may not have done. I think it’s important to bring your family into the conversation and expose them to it.

[00:22:53] That’s, that’s my point of view. I know it’s maybe not always practical, but, um, I think, you know, different things work for different people. Thank you. Yeah. Look, I completely agree with you Michelle. Like it’s um, uh, and I have done exactly just that. Um, I brought my family along to conferences and things like that, and I’ve done it for a number of reasons.

[00:23:16] And some of your entrepreneurs, they, I think really need to hear about this is it. And I’ve emphasized this in my own family, is that it’s not my business. It’s our business. It’s our business. It’s not my business. And particularly with my wife in my case, uh, and I’ve always changed my, um, my focus, I have not talked about, uh, it’s my shares, it’s our shares and it becomes very much more inclusive.

[00:23:47] So, so when I’ve gone on, uh, any international trip, there’s been times where I’ve taken my family with me and, and I didn’t just take them with me to, okay, you can go do something else while I’m at this conference or something, or these business meetings, I’ve taken my family with me and I’ve taken them to the conference and they’ve come to the events that they’re not, and they they’ve seen dare.

[00:24:13] I say data in action. And they, because they had no concept of what I, what I was doing for our business. And, um, and it was really good. And for them to meet some of the people and one of the great things is, uh, what I find for majority of business people is that when they see you brought your family, um, particularly my daughters are older now and I brought them along with me to two events.

[00:24:41] The things like that is that they’ve the people that conference really respond to. And they tell you, tell them some horrible stories about their dad and what sort of stop at a conference or whatever, some funny stories, but that’ll happen. That’s where the pat of it yet, that they’re really engaging. And they’re very embracing.

[00:25:00] I find a lot of the people at the conferences and the industry I’m in and that’s been a great positive. I always try to, then if I take my family, along with me, have a time after the business type stuff, they went and saw finished so that, um, we can have some fun together as a family. And I mean, one time we went to Disneyland and that sort of stuff, even though.

[00:25:25] We’re older. Um, it was like going there for old time’s sake and a resistance, a heap of fun. I mean, it was great time, but it’s, um, that’s actually really, really important, but I think it’s the, the vernacular or changing the conversation typically also with you, with your immediate family and it’s our business, it’s not dad’s business, it’s ours and legally, that might not be true, but it’s irrelevant.

[00:25:55] It’s mentally and emotionally. It was just so important. But anyway. Yeah. So do you not, it’s welcome to the stage. It’s great to have you here on the stage and love to hear about your views on this very difficult topic for entrepreneurs of how to say no to loved ones. So do you not work with the state love to hear from you?

[00:26:15] Hey, thank you. Um, can you hear me well, Perfect. Perfect. Um, thank you so much for having, um, yeah, like, so I’m, I’m a temperature and a first-time founder as well. Um, and I’m still working on the initial steps of my business. So, um, working with, uh, billing software for soccer industry and, and S is definitely tough because I also have a daughter with two years old.

[00:26:44] Um, and, uh, we just also, me and my, my fiance, we came like we moved together basically after that happened with my daughter. So it’s really tough to. Actually for her as well, uh, to understand, uh, also how my life is as a, as an entrepreneur, because one thing is like each other’s leaving in and have seen us on a weekend or when we do things together compared to living together and really experienced that.

[00:27:13] So has been, this last few years has been really tough and being trying is about me trying to find a balance where, how to, how to bring those together and. Because in the other hand, I, my father, uh, was more working more often quite working and didn’t spend time with me and that’s something I remember me and my, my sister and we always complained about.

[00:27:37] So I always had this idea that, that don’t want it to be like that. But in your other hand, um, I have this business idea that I will even want to move forward and, uh, it’s kind of a dream as well to, to own and be an entrepreneur. Um, but, uh, I still have to work part-time as well to pay the bills. And it’s really tricky to find a balance between, um, Working hard making happen to having time with the family.

[00:28:05] Um, the, one of the suggestions also that Michael was saying, and it’s also something that we’ve been doing is always talk about we, and I think that also helps is to build this vision of our life on the future together, um, where the business is kind of the main thing. So, um, that’s why we try to build an, a try to do in terms of, so, um, that we will be able to travel because our industry would allow me to travel into cells, different countries.

[00:28:35] My, my fiance loves traveling. So I was sharing this, building this future together and trying to say, that’s where we want to go for. Um, that’s one of the things I’ve been trying to do and always talk about the business. Well, as for, as something from our side and not just my business in a way, um, something else that we’ve been trying to do as well is like we’re a time.

[00:28:57] So trying to always have, um, some hours where I am just with, uh, with the girls in his case, um, and, uh, like dinner before dinner, at least one, two hours before dinner, dinner, and then even putting my, the little one to sleep. So that there’s always this part where I’m, um, it’s my task and also to contribute, but also to be present.

[00:29:22] Um, but it’s not always easy because especially, um, there sometimes you really have a lot of things in your mind and, uh, deadlines, or, uh, we have some pilot customers at the moment and you have to fulfill, so you always have that, even when your off time, you still have that in your head. So I’m here also.

[00:29:41] Sharing a bit, my experience, but also to learn from others and see how can I do better? Um, but uh, also something good to mention Michael, as well about not only spending time, but also giving some flowers, maybe doing some, doing, try to organize something that you are just there with them, like dinner outside.

[00:30:02] And I think probably that’s also things that I’ve been lacking and I probably should start looking to do more because I think it’s really important to break as well, the routines. And, um, because otherwise you feel that it’s always constant, uh, that you do want to do the same things, constant and breaking routines with this different.

[00:30:24] So that’s fantastic that didn’t look really great here and for you and, uh, good luck with that, that whole balancing, um, of your, your business and your personal life. And congratulations have a two year old daughter they’re so precious. They really are.

[00:30:47] There’s nothing like that, but, uh, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it is a big challenge for entrepreneurs. So, um, as our kids or our say our significant other, um, goes in that journey with us as entrepreneurs and we have that inclusive sort of language that we bring around the dinner table as some of that. So how do we say.

[00:31:09] So, how do we say no? And there’s a few rules that I found, uh, or a few steps, I guess I found being really useful. They’ve helped me in that, and that is stop positive, use a positive shared experience, be positive. Tell them how much you really love them. Tell them how much do you care about them? Um, the, the second thing is, um, keep it short, gets to the point, um, which is after you’ve shared that, uh, of how important they are.

[00:31:43] It keep it short, like what’s going on with you. What’s actually happening with you. Um, be honest, like, let me tell you, it really is the best policy to be being honest with people. Um, particularly. And I’m suggesting an alternative. I don’t just say no. I remember one stage in my life. I used to be known as Mr.

[00:32:07] Noah and the family. Um, and my kids used to, like, that was hilarious. And my wife coined the term for obvious, not good reasons. Uh, she, she would say that I was Mr. No, I would always say no. My default position was no, I spent like years getting rid of that monkey off my back where I became Misty. Yes. And that was a great moment for me.

[00:32:32] Let me tell you, but I was Mr. No, cause I would just default. No, no, no. Uh, can you do this? No. Why? I’ve got other things I want to do. Can you do that? And it was, um, and there’s always good reasons. Why, let me take the, when you’re running a business, you always have great reasons why you cannot do something with loved ones you always do.

[00:32:55] Um, and there’s a few things along that journey of transfer, translating from Mr. No, to Mr. Yes, I discovered number one rule is, um, I have to go and signal to my family when I was really at home. And I’m not talking for you. People here are just working from home and how do you let know your time? I had to work at signals and they knew that dad was home.

[00:33:26] And so one of the things I would always make sure I did was I put my slippers, my moccasins on, I got out of my shoes and all that stuff. And I put my marketing design and I could see my kids, they would glance down and they’d see that I’m a marketer at home. So they knew dad was. And that was a visual cue.

[00:33:46] So that was a really good thing for me. Is that, that visual cue that I was Mr. Yes, I was no longer Mr. Note. And, um, that was, that was a great thing to be able to do that. Uh, the other thing I did was I made sure I can guide regular times on the weekends. I took the view of Monday to Friday, I was working actually flat out.

[00:34:09] I was just, um, we have a saying in Australia, said flat out like a loser drinking. It would just going absolutely hammering tones during, during Monday to Friday. But on the weekend I stopped and the only time I’ve worked on a weekend is if there was some sort of major crosses, um, I stop and I would spend time with myself, um, which is really important with my wife and with my kids.

[00:34:39] And we do fun things like go down to the beach or something like that. Um, I would focus on them and say, what is it that they love doing? And one of the things I used to love doing was building this big train, track, plastic train tracks things. And when they’re younger and we would spend hours building train tracks, I became Mr.

[00:35:00] Yes, in that process. And that was actually really a, uh, an educational experience for me of how to actually manage those things. And, um, but you know, I hope that helps you out. So a process to saying no stop, positive user positive share experience, reaffirm them that you love them. Keep it short of why you cannot share it.

[00:35:23] Not just the facts share the emotion at the honest, Hey, this is, these are the challenges I’m wrestling with, particularly as the kids get older. But yeah. With your significant, like your partner or something like that. Um, and suggestional too, don’t just say no, say I can’t do this now, but I can do it.

[00:35:43] Then I cannot be with you at this point of time, but I can be, I know that they’re important still, otherwise it like, ah, you’re fighting me off, but anyway, they hope that helps you and Dina, thank you for sharing what you shared. It was just great. And you’re going to have to go along and give your daughter a great, because yeah, it amongst all your Curtin, I’m a coder as well.

[00:36:06] So, but anyway, exactly. I just want to put down one last thing he’s like that he mentioned there and I think that’s the key thing is about how was. Uh, something else when you say no, um, that’s something also, we learn as well. That is important for the kids when they want something and you can’t have it.

[00:36:28] Like, I was offered an alternative and that’s the same thing for the family. Um, and when we have this like critical times, like you say, I always say, but, okay, I’m having this critical time now, but let’s do this in X weeks or, um, and I think that’s really gives, uh, a relief, a Kaylee can’t do it now, but we’re going to have some looking forward for the next time that we’re going to really enjoy.

[00:36:54] Yeah, absolutely. But there’s one thing for sure. When you say you can do it next, next week, whatever you gotta to make sure you actually follow through on it. If you don’t follow through, and I’m saying you, you, you run to trouble. But anyway, let me tell you, it’s, it’s my privilege to also welcome Colin to the stage.

[00:37:08] It’s great to have Colin here from startup club. And we’re talking about the topic of, um, how to say no to loved ones. Colin. I’m sure you are, Mr. No, weren’t you you’re always saying no to your family because you’re chasing that business dream. I bet you, your note, is that correct call? I don’t know if I was overtly.

[00:37:29] No. Um, I know that last week when I was with my daughter who recently graduated from college and she spent two weeks with me, she said, dad, like, can’t you tell your assistant to stop putting you with so many meanings so we could spend more time together. And I’m like, it’s not my assistant. These meetings have to occur.

[00:37:54] Like we have to like these, these business deals are happening. I can’t just turn them off. Um, but I sensed a little tension in that. Well, this is the way you’ve been your whole life and that I’m not spending enough time with her and really helping her understand her needs because I always have the deal going.

[00:38:14] I always, I’m always on the call. Doing the clubhouse talk I’m I’m, you know, it’s, it’s, you know, I don’t know if it’s a no or more than just time, time for time for your kids. And, um, no, my kids obviously, you know, they understand, and I, they’ve grown up in an environment and entrepreneurial environment where, you know, when dad needs to do his business, he needs to do his business and that’s it.

[00:38:44] Um, and when mom needs to run the school, my, my wife also runs a school full-time and we own the school. So it it’s, it’s pretty intense our family. Um, and they understand that. Um, so, but is there a time, a moments where, you know, they want to do something and I have to say no. Yeah. If it’s a big deal.

[00:39:04] Absolutely. Um, but obviously I do value my kids first and foremost, my family. And it’s, it’s definitely a challenge between the two worlds sometimes, you know, there’s. You know, we all go through it, right? Like sometimes, like we go through hell a rollercoaster and they come home and then they say, you know, your wife or someone says, you know, can we, you know, get the, uh, the China, you know, in red versus yellow or whatever, you know, I’m like, I really don’t care, but that communication doesn’t really work very well.

[00:39:39] You know, we need to take a break, take the pause, come home and have our communication and understand it may not be important to us, but it is important to them. Yeah. Completely agree with you on that call. And I can relate to that, that some things like what’s your trying, what’s your color, this or whatever.

[00:40:01] I really don’t care, but you’re right. They don’t want to inject. Um, they actually want your, your input, eh, at that point in time. And that can be quite difficult. And we could be saying no in that process, we actually say no in a different way by saying, I didn’t care saying no. Um, it’s withholding your attention from them.

[00:40:26] And that can be, that can be really difficult you, because, because as you just said, call it. Yeah. You’re in the com trust the business all day. And you’re going from suppliers to do partners to illegal documents, to technical issues, whatever it is, you’re being pulled in 500 directions as an entrepreneur and you come home and someone decides to pull that last thread and say, what color dishes or crockery should we get tomorrow when I buy it tomorrow?

[00:40:57] And you just say, I don’t care. I don’t care. And that’s a tough one. Yeah. It’s. But that’s an interesting question. I had a conversation with one of my daughters last night, um, and the conversation went like this and we were talking about how entrepreneurs are different. And that I said, you find the vast majority of people want to win arguments.

[00:41:26] If you have an argument or something like that, they want to win. The argument. Entrepreneurs want to get to the best solution. They don’t care. Who’s who who’s, uh, point of view, accurately wins the argument they want to get to the best solution. I said, it’s a very different approach. And, um, it’s, it’s very similar as he said, yes.

[00:41:46] That’s why you miss things up all the time. Dad, what do you mean you miss things up? I said she goes, I’ve seen. The arguing hammer and Tom was with, with my brother or my sister or something like that, it gets you about some sort of issue, whether it be the global economy or the climate change or whatever, you’ll be arguing away.

[00:42:10] And then you suddenly you’ll turn around and say, yeah, you know, you’re right. I’m wrong? And I said, yeah, I was trying to explore the different aspects of, of, of the, um, of the argument. So I come up with a better solution to the problem, whatever it is, we’re discussing. And she said, but you do understand you’re messing everyone up by doing that.

[00:42:31] I said, but that’s what an entrepreneur does. They, they look for the best solution. They’re not focused on the, uh, on winning the argument. They want to have the best. And I’ve really opened my eyes up to this whole thing. I’ve had to say no to loved ones is that sometimes as entrepreneurs, we have a mindset that completely put those people who are around us into tailspins because we do things like look for the best solution.

[00:43:03] And we’re very happy to drop our opinion or in order to go even after their solution, because it’s better. And most people, like I said are after winning the argument and we leave a trail of quotation marks destruction behind us because, uh, because people say what happened then, but we’ve already moved on to the next issue.

[00:43:27] So it’s not even necessarily about how to say no to loved ones. It’s been aware of the impact that our language may have on our loved ones. And which can be a really big challenge in itself. Have you ever found Colin, I’m going to come back to you if you like, have you ever found that’s the case where you’re focused on outcomes and people are so focused on winning the argument that you end up leaving a bit of a, I call it a trail or distract.

[00:43:57] Cause maybe that’s a bit of an exaggeration, but you ended up leaving this trail of, of, um, confusion either with loved ones or even business colleagues, everything like that, because you’ve just moved onto the next thing so fast because you believe it’s been dealt with because the best solutions being chosen, how have you found that that’s the case you’ve had to go back and repair those relationships.

[00:44:21] Okay. So like, I am very focused on objectives and results and uh, for instance, we just saw. Um, one of my biggest companies that I’ve, I’ve run a.club to go daddy and everyone, the team, my family, everybody knew that no one’s going to get in the way like this. We’re going to get that football across the line.

[00:44:51] The issue is that sometimes it takes months and months to get these deals done, but we literally were working weekends. We never stopped. We Michelle and Jeff and myself, we worked so hard to get that football across the line. And it was a big deal. It was a very big deal. And we were very, we were, our objective was to make it happen and, and no one was going to get that way, including the family.

[00:45:17] Now, obviously, um, there are moments where. You know, you need to spend time with your family, even when you’re in that big deal, even when you’re trying to make those deals happen. Um, but you’re not going on vacation for two weeks. So I just think there’s times in our life where we can, I think it’s justifiable to say, no, it’s just a fireball to be focused on that goal and deliver results.

[00:45:44] And there were other times in life where it’s not justifiable where we really didn’t need to go to the office late or, or make an extra thousand dollars that day, just because we needed to, we could have easily gone home and, and spend more time with the family. But there are times in our careers entrepreneurs, I would definitely argue that we need to spend the time to make it happen.

[00:46:09] And sometimes that’s when you say no, Yeah, but have you also found that, um, uh, unexplained the definition of loved ones here where like you have, um, people in your office where you as the entrepreneur. Um, and it could be your, your management team is entrepreneurs themselves are focused on the outcomes as you put it.

[00:46:33] And because you’re focused on the outcomes, you find that the emotional side or the mental mental side of say employees or something like that becomes a bit scary. Because you’re so focused on the outcomes and they’re focused, like I said before on their little patches, such as like that. And so you move from one thing to another thing to another thing very, very quickly, because you’re making decisions on that journey, but behind you, there’s all this confusion or something like that of hang on.

[00:47:06] Did I just win the argument? Like what happened? Like why did Colin suddenly go with my idea? Like what happened there? Like, do you understand what I’m saying there? It could be. And that was a bit of an insight for me along my journey was the fact that I could sometimes leave people in a lot of confusion.

[00:47:28] Um, because, uh, because of how fast. Entrepreneurs can to go along and be decision-making in a very, um, uh, what’s the word I’m after in a very, um, ambiguous circumstances? Well, most people like to have a hundred percent of things now, Dan, at times, but you’re just, you’re just moved on that. Didn’t stand what I’m saying.

[00:47:54] They call it. I think it’s lack of communication. I think it’s lack of communication of the reality that you’re in. So when I I’m, I’m guilty of this, you know, I’ll have something really big at work, but I don’t communicate that with the family. And then they get all angry and mad at me. But then if I actually had communicated in the first place that this is a deal that we’re working on, and this is something that has to happen.

[00:48:19] And I did that somewhat in advance. So not everything can be in advance. I know that. Right. But if I could somewhat in advance say, Hey, look tonight, I’m going to be doing this because I’m doing that versus yeah, I have to stay late. Sorry, at the last minute. Right? So like there’s weight, it’s all about communication, I think.

[00:48:36] And if we can improve communication with all the people around us as entrepreneurs and we can improve communication with our family and our, and our friends. I think that that is probably where we can get out of the, out of the mud here, because that’s what it’s all about. Communication, Colin. I, I love that.

[00:48:57] And as part of that communication, something I, you know, I think when you go back to Michael to saying, no, you know, one of the things certainly I’ve been guilty of when I look back at my past is when your kid says to you, you know, why can’t you do this? You said, I’ve got to go to a business. And you just say, I got to go, I’m busy.

[00:49:14] It’s important, but I never took the time often to explain what it was. And I think to your point comment about communication is if you do find yourself in a situation, when you have to say, no, don’t just say, no, I’m busy, or I have to do this for business, or it’s important share what it is, give more details, you know, bring your family into it so that they understand, you know, it’s not the dad’s busy doing nothing.

[00:49:41] It’s that I have to do this because of that. And this is what we’re doing, and we’re trying to close this deal or we’re building the product or I’m visiting the factory, whatever it is, just give them more information. And it’s not, it’s not an excuse or a solution because they may still be upset, but at least they have an understanding of what it is you’re going to be doing.

[00:50:00] That’s keeping you away from them. And not just because you’re proverbial busy or it’s important, which is the typical response. So I think communication, as you said, colonies. Yeah, communication absolutely is key. Um, Jeff and call it, um, let me tell you, but the interesting thing, my family actually sat down and talked to me about this.

[00:50:21] I can communicate facts, but I needed to communicate the emotion and what I was doing. I was robbing them of what, the emotion of what dad was going through. Um, and, uh, why was this deal important? Exp express your excitement? Why is it important express? How excited you are about this opportunity and things like that?

[00:50:44] Don’t just communicate the facts or, Hey, you go through a really tough time. You just looks like you’re gonna lose the major customer or something like that. Express the stress you’re going under. You. Wouldn’t be surprised how often that my, my family have just gathered around me and give me a hug. And you know what, that meant more to me then straight in.

[00:51:06] And spurred me on yeah. To get through those tougher times as an entrepreneur, just a simple hug. And, um, it was, it was amazing, but communication is key, but it’s communicating, um, not just the facts, but communicate the emotion is the emotion, which I think that a lot of entrepreneurs, for whatever reason, the business schools out there will tell you, basically, businesses is a emotional.

[00:51:39] In other words, there’s no emotions at all businesses, all about emotions. The reason why nine times out of 10, the reason why people will do business with your business, it because they like you. Yeah. That deal’s got a structure, make sense, all that sort of stuff, but they’d want to go along to business with you because you are, they like you, it’s about emotion.

[00:51:58] It’s about the interact. It’s about the relationships. It’s the same thing with your. It’s the emotion and communicating that. And that’s something that I’ve found is just so vitally important. Um, with my own family, I’ve been married now for 34 years, uh, what a wonderful family. And, um, it’s just, uh, the reason why I think is that learned how to communicate.

[00:52:28] And they’ve learned that they can talk to dad and say, you know what, dad, you’re behaving like an idiot at the moment. And I, I’ve learned to take that on board. Sometimes I’ve found we will teach us the toughest lessons. The other thing I found is that, um, The where to put loved ones, there’s loved ones.

[00:52:49] And then there’s call it loved ones. And the loved ones are my immediate family and my extended family. Um, quotation marks around this less important. Like when you have demands on your time as college relating, um, you, you, you’ve got your loved ones, your, your kids and your wife, or your husband and so forth, and you need to put time to them.

[00:53:19] But what happens to the extended family and the extended family could do some really interesting things. Um, and there’s a, I’ve experienced this over the years. Um, they, they can put fear in twos. They could say things like, um, aren’t you worried? This could be the last birth that you have with, with your, your mother, your father, or.

[00:53:43] You have an obligation to this family. You need to be at this event, or you can’t possibly care about me if you don’t come to Christmas dinner. And these are, I read an article about this many years ago, my wife actually pointed out to me, it’s called it’s about fog, fear, obligation, and guilt. And how do you say no in their circumstances with two very emotive language and quite often occurs not from your immediate family, but extended family and as entrepreneurs, we need to recognize the conversation.

[00:54:17] And, uh, so I, I quite often respond to say, look, I love, I love my mother and father very, very deeply. I’m not able to come to this event, but I will become the next. And so you recognize the language of fear, obligation, and guilt, and you can then respond to it, not in anger, but in life. That’d be very firm because as entrepreneurs, as Colin, so rightly pointed out, there’s demands upon us at times that we actually do need to be focused on say the business and so forth like that.

[00:54:52] And any spare time we have is he needs to go to our immediate family. So those are really close to us and we have to make those decisions near tough decisions to make. So say no, say no, or it could even be friends, say no to them and say, Hey, no, I can’t do this. Don’t you really care about me anymore.

[00:55:12] When was the last time we got together? No, I can’t now, but I can at this particular. Yeah, it’s a, it’s a challenge. So, um, Colin or Jeff, have you had ever had challenges with extended family? Like yeah, not just your immediate family where you’ve had things like, uh, uh, fear, obligation or guilt put on you to attend issues or do something for, for them.

[00:55:39] Um, now you’ve just come through a time. Colin you’re immensely successful. You’re so sold your business and then not that you have an obligation to help out such and such a family member, you know, that don’t have as much as you, you have an obligation. Colin, maybe you heard that sort of language. Maybe you haven’t.

[00:55:56] I know. I definitely had

[00:56:01] so Colin, you there, I’m sorry about that, Michael. Um, I’m having a technical problem here. Um, can you just rephrase the. Yeah. So have you ever had a situation where, um, extended family quite often comes to prepare pressure upon entrepreneurs and they bring like the fear, obligation and guilt upon you? Like you’ve just sold your club and you’ve got a whole lot of money.

[00:56:27] Did you know your cousin so-and-so doesn’t have anything? I’m sure you could help them out. Colin. You need to go do that now. Well, I, you know, right now I really love them. Yeah, I know you’re saying. Yeah. So now I know I’m I actually am doing that. Um, I’ve helped a lot, a lot. I have a very large family, something like 20 nephews and nieces and six, uh, brothers and sisters, and, uh, come from big family and I, and I’ve taken care of everybody after the sale.

[00:56:52] I, I gave a lot, a lot of money. I’m paying for the education for everyone, but let me tell you where it hurt, where I was hurt by it. Um, because before I sold the company, Uh, and multiple years ago, and even recently, a few years back, you know, I didn’t have a lot of cash in the bank. You know, we’re as entrepreneurs, we’re often we’re asset rich cash poor, but all of our, everybody around us thinks we have all this money and we don’t.

[00:57:19] And it was very stressful because they would, you know, every time someone runs into trouble, they’re coming to you to help bail them out. And, and, and, and, you know, in some ways their pain is much bigger than your pain. And so you try to help them out. But the problem is when you keep draining, you know, when you keep taking the money or you keep giving the money away, it becomes harder and harder for the entrepreneur to actually make the money.

[00:57:45] To get to the next stage and produce the next business. Um, and I’ve experienced that for, for 20 years of my life. Thank goodness. I’m no longer in that position, Michael. And it’s a different story now, but you know, for probably the first 20 years of my entrepreneurial career, everybody thinks you’re so successful yet.

[00:58:04] You’re probably the poorest guy in the room. Um, and, uh, you it’s, it’s hard to be able to handle that. And, and in that case, you do have to say no, and I’ve done my best to say no, cause you gotta keep, you gotta keep yourself, you know, you got you’re the engine, you’re the engine that is generating all this money to support the extended family.

[00:58:24] You got to take care of that engine first. And then once that engine is revving nicely, then you can share the benefits. Yeah, I completely agree with you there at one of the most difficult challenges I’ve faced over the years is, um, we’ve had like, um, friends come to us and sort of say, look, we don’t have money for the rent next week.

[00:58:49] And, uh, of course you put your hand in your pocket and you do whatever you can because you think you don’t want to be there for kids to be on the streets or something. And one of the difficulties as an entrepreneur, as you become more successful is how do you say no to those circumstances? And should you say no to their circumstance?

[00:59:08] Because let me tell you every time we’ve actually given money to friends, it’s completely changed the relationship for the. They feel there’s some unspoken obligation, even though you’re giving it completely freely, never expected repave, and let’s just stop. They feel there’s some unspoken obligation there and it can be really, it’s a tough thing.

[00:59:28] Um, I’ve had to give money away and I think it’s one of the reasons why, uh, many entrepreneurs, successful entrepreneurs set foundations and things like that, uh, is because they found it’s actually really tough. Like how do you give money away? Um, when you have an abundance of it, um, and you can’t just sit there and just say, say he is, here’s a thousand bucks, whatever in cash.

[00:59:50] There it is because the people perceive the strings attached, even when they’re. Um, or they have the reverse, which is I can keep on going back to this well, over and over and over again. Um, yeah, so it’s a, it’s a, it’s an interesting conundrum and maybe that’s a topic for another discussion, but today we’d be taking a look at the topic of how to say no, and we’ve explored it from all sorts of sides.

[01:00:17] And I must admit it. It’s one, we’ll probably look, explore it a bit further in the future and say, no, it can be really hard, but be honest, open and allocate time if you can’t discuss topics straight away, but also as was brought up, communicate, communicate, not just the facts, communicate the emotions of what you’re going through.

[01:00:41] Really listen to the words they’re saying, but not just the words, that person, the loved ones saying to you, look at the emotion. The reason why people are demanding loved ones or demanding time with you is because they love. That’s the reason why, so how do you like listen to that? Say no, something that entrepreneurs need to learn so that they can say yes.

[01:01:07] And that’s a big, big lesson to learn. So you’ve been listening to the complete entrepreneur. We meet have any great times today for the last hour. So show this at 5:00 PM Eastern time, every Thursday and next. We’re going to be taking a look at men who frustration, but just before I just talked about that, I just want to hand it across to you to call and call.

[01:01:29] I believe there’s some great things happening@startup.club. Okay. Just go to start up that club. There’s Mr. Wonderful. Right on the front page, I talked to him last month. Um, and we are going to have him back again. Uh, I am also reaching out to more speakers. I have a really, really, really big speaker coming on.

[01:01:48] Um, he’s agreed to do it. He’s coming out of retirement. He’s one of the top authors, um, in entrepreneurship, in our era and our time. And, uh, he’s coming on to clubhouse for the, you know, for the first time. But if you’re not on the email list, you’ll probably not know when he’s coming on. So if get on the email list, go to start-up dot club type in, uh, your email address and we’ll let you know when, when he’s coming.

[01:02:13] I will say tomorrow I get interrupted. I know. I don’t want to release yet though. Yeah, you can just going to spam when people, oh, no, I used it on start-up dot club. You get, we only send out emails when we have big speakers or we’re giving away free books or, you know, re really good email list to get on.

[01:02:35] Let me tell you that. Let me tell you tomorrow too tomorrow at two o’clock Eastern is a serial entrepreneur hour. It’s hosted by Michelle van Tilburg, Jeffrey sass, Colin C Campbell. And we are talking about something very interesting. Do you know they’re 28.7 million small businesses in the United States and 99% of those are small businesses.

[01:03:00] Why are, why do so few scale. Entrepreneurs fail to scale. That’s what we’re talking about tomorrow. We have some expert speakers that we’re bringing on as well. So please join us tomorrow at two o’clock Eastern two, o’clock Eastern at the time to me and Mr. Wonderful is coming out and my goodness, like there’s a lot happening.

[01:03:20] I stopped.club and I must admit next week on the complete entrepreneur, we’re looking at managing frustration. If you’re an entrepreneur and you’ve got, you’d be frustrated, like why is everyone else seemed to be successful? Not me in my business. Um, why am I having trouble with the suppliers? What are the, these clients not coming on board?

[01:03:39] Why don’t I just, this, this staff member just leave. Yeah. Like one of the most debilitating emotions for entrepreneurship is frustration. How do you deal with deal with frustrated, your successful friends that have jobs when you are slaving away and in your business? Like frustration can also be incredibly motivating.

[01:04:00] Join us next week to find out how it could be motivating. Cause we’re going to be unpacking, managing frustration, and I must admit it’s going to be great. So, um, I just want to think right now my co-moderator has been just awesome as always. Um, and also those people that put their hand up to, to come on stage.

[01:04:21] Thank you very much for sharing your stories. It’s been great hearing from you, but most in particular for you, the attendees you’re in the audience right now and you, that co inspire us on was to be able to put together these shows and stuff like that. Cause our goal is to support entrepreneurs in every aspect of their life, not just the business side, but the personal side as well.

[01:04:46] What does it mean to live the life of an entrepreneur? And that’s what we’re trying to do at the complete entrepreneur. So God bless you. I look forward to seeing you at 5:00 PM Eastern time. Next Thursday on the complete.